Discussion on Serial Killers, Spree Killers, Mass Killers, And single event killers. (4 Viewers)

To start. I have always found Serial Killers fascinating. What makes them do what they do?. I know I am not the only one. This is the place to talk about it. I'll start. Who do you find the most fascinating and why?.

 

[Mel70]

I think she's in her 40s. I've heard that extreme trauma can kind of freeze your emotional maturity at whatever age you suffered it. I dunno.

If you are a child. It defines how you look at things. Different than before. And distorts normal thinking of a situation because of the trauma. Without saying too much. I know Because of experience.

 

[Mel70]

Yeah it could be because he didn't commit them. It also could be that he has life sentences in Kansas and could face the death penalty in Missouri but if they are offering amnesty, I'd think he wouldn't have to worry about that.

I take amnesty to mean the sentences he already has would remain but they'd not try him or convicted him on these new ones if he confesses. That is what I'd think anyone would assume they mean so I think it likely means that BUT they don't explain it so who knows... I'd guess the reason they offer it is so they can get answers to cases and victim families that they have never been able to find/get.

Kerri is ocnvinced he did Garber and if there is no evidence, she doesn't seem to think that. She thinks the FBI should get involved and all should be tested etc. but she also thinks there is some blanket that per the LE lady doesn't exist or they have no knowledge of. I don't know who to believe any longer but I don't think she knows the laws like she maybe thinks she does. Nor do I but can they even do what she says should be done. Do they need cause? I have no idea. And you say there isn't anything so what is it she refers to that should be tested? Were there things found with the victim or is she talking of trophies dug up of Rader's? I have no idea. She probably said but I can't recall or maybe she didn't and just stated there things that should be tested. And I believe there is now a third being looked at or maybe it was the second she was referring to when she said she just found they are looking at another. Can't keep up these days.

He did make some journal entry of "bad laundry day" or something like that...

I guess in her defense they DO seem to be looking into these and if they offered him amnesty then there IS something going on. And they DID dig up and find things of his, etc.

I DO believe the one sheriff did say he thinks Rader is responsible, and I think it was for Garber but again, not sure which.

I don't know, I"m muddled but yeah, they'd need more than his confession I think to conclude anything.

It's the "Bad laundry day". I can't get around. There are things pointing to him. And things that don't. Just those 3 words are powerful based on the case. I can't think of any other circumstance that he would use that phrase.

 

[Regina]

Kerri is ocnvinced he did Garber and if there is no evidence, she doesn't seem to think that. She thinks the FBI should get involved and all should be tested etc. but she also thinks there is some blanket that per the LE lady doesn't exist or they have no knowledge of. I don't know who to believe any longer but I don't think she knows the laws like she maybe thinks she does. Nor do I but can they even do what she says should be done. Do they need cause? I have no idea. And you say there isn't anything so what is it she refers to that should be tested? Were there things found with the victim or is she talking of trophies dug up of Rader's? I have no idea. She probably said but I can't recall or maybe she didn't and just stated there things that should be tested. And I believe there is now a third being looked at or maybe it was the second she was referring to when she said she just found they are looking at another. Can't keep up these days.

He did make some journal entry of "bad laundry day" or something like that...

Yeah, Kerri said there was a blanket missing from the Garber crime scene but now how could anyone know that unless there was a photograph of the scene found among Rader's many polaroids?

Re the journal entry, I think it was Kerri who'd mentioned a woman, Denise Rathbun, murdered on her way to a laundry mat in Nov '77 and I think if the journal entry refers to a murder he committed, I'd think it was that one.
(Although the journal entry said '76, to me, that alone wouldn't cause me to doubt that he could be responsible. )
That said, I think it could be that he was simply making reference to a murder he'd only heard about.

 

[Regina]

Is there some reason the name of that case can't be shared?

Are we talking of two things/cases here? One that Rader told police he did and they had the wrong guy and one in which he said the guy that did it, which wasn't him, did good work?

I don't know why the name is blocked but yeah, that case (Wichita, 1987) is a different case from the one in which Rader claimed responsibility.
(I don't know what case that other one is but it doesn't make sense that would be the 1987 case.)

 

[Regina]

If you are a child. It defines how you look at things. Different than before. And distorts normal thinking of a situation because of the trauma. Without saying too much. I know Because of experience.

Btw, serving time in prison can also arrest development. I was reminded of that fact yesterday while watching a 1992 documentary on serial killers.
(For several reasons, including that it was produced in '92, the doc was very interesting!)
Anyway, the situation was that a criminal profile turned out to be wrong about just one thing- the perp's age- which showed to be off by the number of years he'd spent in prison.

 

[Cousin Dupree]

Btw, serving time in prison can also arrest development. I was reminded of that fact yesterday while watching a 1992 documentary on serial killers.
(For several reasons, including that it was produced in '92, the doc was very interesting!)
Anyway, the situation was that a criminal profile turned out to be wrong about just one thing- the perp's age- which showed to be off by the number of years he'd spent in prison.

The same thing happened in the Arthur Shawcross case as well. He was profiled as being younger. Everything else was spot on.

 

[Cousin Dupree]

So he could be in control. "They'll never know about the others. They are mine."

He enjoyed going through how he killed all of his claimed victims. I doubt he'd turn down the chance to talk about more.

 

[RoundPeg]

I saw a clip of Ted Bundy's little brother last night. I feel bad for him. He's still suffering from his brother's crimes.

That's just sad.

 

[GrandmaBear]

Well Rader would have said he wasn't home, wouldn't he, that he was camping? If I recall correctly, in the video of the court proceeding, he explained to the judge that he'd stolen away from the camping event to commit the murder.

I'm not clear on this. You mean the neighbor (the two he took elsewhere) he claimed to leave a camping trip to go home and murder one or both of them? That's who I was referring to.

 

[GrandmaBear]

It's the "Bad laundry day". I can't get around. There are things pointing to him. And things that don't. Just those 3 words are powerful based on the case. I can't think of any other circumstance that he would use that phrase.

I agree it seems it could have import or be referring to such, however, it was said that he frequented or scouted laundries for victims and so the thought did cross my mind that "bad laundry day" could simply mean he didn't find anyone he'd pick, he struck out so to speak or something on that order... I think it more likely though relates to a victim of course...

 

[GrandmaBear]

Yeah, Kerri said there was a blanket missing from the Garber crime scene but now how could anyone know that unless there was a photograph of the scene found among Rader's many polaroids?

Re the journal entry, I think it was Kerri who'd mentioned a woman, Denise Rathbun, murdered on her way to a laundry mat in Nov '77 and I think if the journal entry refers to a murder he committed, I'd think it was that one.
(Although the journal entry said '76, to me, that alone wouldn't cause me to doubt that he could be responsible. )
That said, I think it could be that he was simply making reference to a murder he'd only heard about.

You know I listened to her but can't recall if she explained it or not. She did say there were TWO different blankets and made it clear she was not talking of the ONE in one case but ANOTHER one. I'd have to guess it was in a photograph OR in items they dug up but more likely the photograph because I do recall her or the show's host saying or both that she has seen pictures that NONE OF US HAVE.

So the years don't match...? I thought the laundry deal was one of these new ones they are looking at, is it Garber or the other one? I am getting confused. Who is Rathbun? And are they known to be looking at him for that or is she mentioned just by Kerri?

 

[GrandmaBear]

I don't know why the name is blocked but yeah, that case (Wichita, 1987) is a different case from the one in which Rader claimed responsibility.
(I don't know what case that other one is but it doesn't make sense that would be the 1987 case.)

Are you saying you aren't blocking the name but the site or mods are or something? I don't know what case is being referred to since it doesn't show.

 

[GrandmaBear]

He enjoyed going through how he killed all of his claimed victims. I doubt he'd turn down the chance to talk about more.

I've said that I go both ways on it but I lean towards of course he has other victims that are not known to us. And I lean that way for a number of reasons. It seems most here do as well.

For one thing, giving up two extras as you said he did, is exactly what anyone with a brain would do. If you just say yeah, the ones you think I did, I did and there are no more, you aren't apt to be believed but throw in a couple of extra and they may look no further.

SKs are known to hold back murders and love that it drives others nuts imo looking for evidence and answers. They like the secret and the victim being just theirs and they like the head game. If Rader right now escaped and was on the lam, he'd be sending anonymous letters to news and LE again playing cat and mouse with the other murders, etc. Imo.

He's had little attention but ATTENTION stays on him while they try to get answers. He is in the news, his daughter is visiting, the news is showing they are talking of him and whether he did these murders, etc. He isn't going to want to end that.

There's plenty more but the biggest is that I don't think all the years he would have killed are accounted for and I don't believe he was NOT killing.

 

[GrandmaBear]

That's just sad.

I almost didn't but then when I realized it was a clip as she said and not that long I did. I personally feel he is okay as he is BUT yes it is sad, the loss he had and who he thought is brother was and then came to deal with is heartbreaking. I idolized my much older siblings growing up. I can tell he did the same. He visited his bro in Seattle, we used to visit my sister in Mpls. on summer break. I still remember much fondly, his memories must be tainted now as he kind of said.

Mel said the names and who the siblings were has been kept very quiet, I wonder why he has changed that. Maybe he thought it is just the time, just adding to others showing what the families of the killer deal with.

 

[Mel70]

Yeah, Kerri said there was a blanket missing from the Garber crime scene but now how could anyone know that unless there was a photograph of the scene found among Rader's many polaroids?

Re the journal entry, I think it was Kerri who'd mentioned a woman, Denise Rathbun, murdered on her way to a laundry mat in Nov '77 and I think if the journal entry refers to a murder he committed, I'd think it was that one.
(Although the journal entry said '76, to me, that alone wouldn't cause me to doubt that he could be responsible. )
That said, I think it could be that he was simply making reference to a murder he'd only heard about.

Wow. I DID NOT remember that. Thank you for mentioning that.

 

[Regina]

The same thing happened in the Arthur Shawcross case as well. He was profiled as being younger. Everything else was spot on.

That's actually the case!
(I didn't pay much attention to his defense but it was some sort of b.s to do with mental health.)

 

[Regina]

I'm not clear on this. You mean the neighbor (the two he took elsewhere) he claimed to leave a camping trip to go home and murder one or both of them? That's who I was referring to.

Yeah, he said he left a camping trip to commit one murder, the murder of his down-the-street neighbor. And you know, if/when the police came around with questions, he'd use the camping trip as his alibi.
The thing for me is, of all of the known victims that he'd murdered in their own homes, he moved two and dumped them elsewhere. Now, I'm not sure why he took the neighbor's body to the church for photographs but I think he would have dumped her body elsewhere, regardless.
(Btw, Kerri said that when her dad was arrested, they hadn't linked BTK to the neighbor's murder, that she brought it up to them.)

 

[Kimster]

Yeah, he said he left a camping trip to commit one murder, the murder of his down-the-street neighbor. And you know, if/when the police came around with questions, he'd use the camping trip as his alibi.
The thing for me is, of all of the known victims that he'd murdered in their own homes, he moved two and dumped them elsewhere. Now, I'm not sure why he took the neighbor's body to the church for photographs but I think he would have dumped her body elsewhere, regardless.
(Btw, Kerri said that when her dad was arrested, they hadn't linked BTK to the neighbor's murder, that she brought it up to them.)

This creeps me out so so much. I can’t even imagine anyone at my church being a serial killer and then to take the victim to our church building and take pictures? It just boggles my mind that could ever happen. But it did and it can!

 

[Regina]

I agree it seems it could have import or be referring to such, however, it was said that he frequented or scouted laundries for victims and so the thought did cross my mind that "bad laundry day" could simply mean he didn't find anyone he'd pick, he struck out so to speak or something on that order... I think it more likely though relates to a victim of course...

Re he struck out, that's how I'd view it, that is, from his perspective. Besides that, there's no context and I'm wondering if that's the extent of the entry.
You know, there was another woman he'd planned to murder and he'd actually broke into her home and waited for her to come home but gave up when she took too long. That's so damned funny to think about, right?! Anyway, I'd like to see the journal entry on that one since it might could offer insight as to how to interpret other entries.

 

[GrandmaBear]

Yeah, he said he left a camping trip to commit one murder, the murder of his down-the-street neighbor. And you know, if/when the police came around with questions, he'd use the camping trip as his alibi.
The thing for me is, of all of the known victims that he'd murdered in their own homes, he moved two and dumped them elsewhere. Now, I'm not sure why he took the neighbor's body to the church for photographs but I think he would have dumped her body elsewhere, regardless.
(Btw, Kerri said that when her dad was arrested, they hadn't linked BTK to the neighbor's murder, that she brought it up to them.)

Interesting. Yes he would have used that as the alibi.

As far as the church and pics, I'd guess with very likely reasonable certainty that most likely it was some fantasy involving pics of a victim in a CHURCH of all places and no less one he was president of (was it president, I think so?). But it also could be convenience or not wanting to get caught but I'd say it was fantasy and risk more likely. I agree that without a doubt he'd dump her elsewhere which does go to show they will adapt to trying to obscure, not get caught, changing MO, etc.

Kerri was an adult when he was arrested right? He was arrested in '05, in the realm of things and dates of his murders, not really all that long ago. So 18 years ago and she if in her 40s was most definitely an adult. I knew that, but am double checking some dates. And she told them about the neighbor... Of COURSE they should have been looking at the neighbor but then different MO a bit, etc. and I'm sure they were just happy to have him for what they did after matching semen from the very first crime scene to his DNA and going from there...

It's like LISK, they are starting with the three and it will probably be over years they evaluate more and all, etc...