Ellen Rae Greenberg. Was it suicide or homicide?

In this podcast I discuss the true crime story of Ellen Rae Greenberg mysterious death.

Let me know what you think of her crime.

The Mysterious Death of Ellen Rae Greenburg: Was It Suicide or Homicide?



MEDIA LINK: Ellen Rae Greenberg: Suicide or homicide? The 27-year-old teacher was found dead in her Philadelphia kitchen in 2011.

 

[Guess Who]

Her spinal cord wasn't severed. Where did you get that from?

"severed" might be the wrong term. Nearly every news article written after the case was reopened mentions her spinal cord was damaged and brain penetrated to the point of incapacitation to be able to even plunge the knife into her heart at the end. Let alone, get herself back into an upright position. Plus there's this little tidbit...

Emery was asked in 2019 by Chief Medical Examiner Sam Gulino to analyze a section of Greenberg's spinal column kept in storage.
She told the deposition that the wounds on the spinal column and the dura didn't have any hemorrhaging around them.
'Lack of hemorrhage means no pulse,' she said.

Bombshell update in Ellen Greenberg mysterious death

Ellen Greenberg, 27, was found dead on the kitchen floor of her apartment in Philadelphia in the middle of a blizzard on January 26, 2011, and her death was ruled a suicide despite 20 wounds.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Now explain how one can stab themselves multiple times after they have no pulse. The article you posted upthread even mentions the lack of hemorrhaging on multiple stab wounds.

 

[Tresir]

"severed" might be the wrong term. Nearly every news article written after the case was reopened mentions her spinal cord was damaged and brain penetrated to the point of incapacitation to be able to even plunge the knife into her heart at the end. Let alone, get herself back into an upright position. Plus there's this little tidbit...

Emery was asked in 2019 by Chief Medical Examiner Sam Gulino to analyze a section of Greenberg's spinal column kept in storage.
She told the deposition that the wounds on the spinal column and the dura didn't have any hemorrhaging around them.
'Lack of hemorrhage means no pulse,' she said.

Bombshell update in Ellen Greenberg mysterious death

Ellen Greenberg, 27, was found dead on the kitchen floor of her apartment in Philadelphia in the middle of a blizzard on January 26, 2011, and her death was ruled a suicide despite 20 wounds.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Now explain how one can stab themselves multiple times after they have no pulse. The article you posted upthread even mentions the lack of hemorrhaging on multiple stab wounds.

It was explained in the article IIRC. Do you want me to go look for you?

 

[Tresir]

It's a strange mixture of wounds - some are just a couple of millimetres deep, like self harming but others are deep and possibly fatal. Then there are two that are determined to be post mortem.

i think I read it here, from one of the reports upthread.

ETA link is in my post upthread #76.

Here's the extract.

However, there was something unusual Emery discovered during the course of her exam.
She observed three injuries of note to Ellen’s spinal column. One, to the spinal cord tissue
itself, was done during the course of Ellen’s autopsy, she said.
But there were two other cuts — one to the bone and ligaments in the back of Greenberg’s
spinal column and a corresponding cut to the dura — that were from a “bona fide sharp force
injury” and were not done at autopsy, she said.
What was notable about those injuries was there was no hemorrhaging around them, Emery
testified, saying, “Lack of hemorrhage means no pulse.”
She offered three possibilities for the lack of hemorrhaging: There wasn’t enough time
between when the wound was inflicted and when Ellen died for it to hemorrhage; the wound
didn’t disrupt the tissue enough to cause a response — or Ellen was already dead when the
wound was inflicted.
If the cut was administered while Ellen was still alive, Emery said she’d have expected to see
hemorrhaging.
“And by the fact that now the dura is not demonstrating hemorrhage, as you found also the
spinal column didn’t, would that weigh a little bit more in suggesting Ellen was dead at the
time this wound was administered?” Podraza asked.
“Yes,” Emery said.
Podraza called this “amazing new information.”
A month after her deposition, the city filed a written declaration by Emery, in which she said
she didn’t fully understand the scope of questions posed to her at deposition by the city’s
attorney, and presented several other possibilities for the lack of hemorrhaging including: that
nothing was injured along the wound path; that bleeding in other areas of the body prevented
bleeding in that area; or that the injury could have been done at the time of autopsy.
“I view the declaration as a deliberate submission to try and cloud her testimony, but it
doesn’t change what her testimony was,” Podraza said.

Here it is. From upthread. The cut to the spinal cord itself was a post mortem cut done at autopsy. The other two cuts near the spinal column did not haemorrage or cut the spinal cord. Bleeding in the many other areas could have prevented it in those spinal column wounds. Three possibilities.

Also below is a link that explains what the dura is.
(NB dura mater is the latin for "hard mother".)

Spinal dura mater: biophysical characteristics relevant to medical device development - PMC

Understanding the relevant biophysical properties of the spinal dura mater is essential to the design of medical devices that will directly interact with this membrane or influence the contents of the intradural space. We searched the literature and ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[SheWhoMustNotBeNamed]

Who Killed Beloved Teacher Ellen Greenberg? Inside Her Parents' Quest for Answers

Ellen Greenberg was stabbed 20 times. Her death was first ruled a homicide — then changed to suicide, sparking a 14-year journey by her parents to learn the truth.

people.com

Who Killed Beloved Teacher Ellen Greenberg? Inside Her Parents' Quest for Answers​

Ellen Greenberg was stabbed 20 times. Her death was first ruled a homicide — then changed to suicide, sparking a 14-year journey by her parents to learn the truth

 

[SheWhoMustNotBeNamed]

Parents of Ellen Greenberg, Philadelphia woman found stabbed to death, want city to reexamine case

The parents of Ellen Greenberg are asking Philadelphia to reopen the investigation into her 2011 death.

www.cbsnews.com

Parents of Ellen Greenberg, Philadelphia woman found stabbed to death, want city to reexamine case​

Attorneys for Ellen Greenberg's parents say they're fed up and tired of waiting. They're asking the City of Philadelphia to follow the terms of a settlement agreement reached months ago and complete a reexamination of their daughter's death.


"There has been more than enough time for the city to do a reexamination. The city had promised to do so expeditiously, meaning very promptly," said attorney Joe Podraza, who represents the Greenbergs.

"The clients would then get a final determination, given all the evidence to date that the only conclusion the medical examiner reached, including Dr. (Marlon) Osbourne, is that Ellen didn't commit suicide," Podraza said.

A spokesperson for the city's law department tells CBS News Philadelphia they will be in contact with the Greenbergs' lawyers and that the review is actively in progress.

"The City will fulfill its obligations under the settlement agreement in this case, and will respond to Plaintiff's motion in due course," a statement said.

 

[SheWhoMustNotBeNamed]

Ellen Greenberg’s parents accuse Philadelphia of ‘trying to block murder investigation’ into daughter’s stabbing death

The Greenbergs claim Philadelphia officials failed to conduct a promised "expeditious" review of their daughter's controversial suicide ruling.

www.pennlive.com

Ellen Greenberg’s parents accuse Philadelphia of ‘trying to block murder investigation’ into daughter’s stabbing death​

After 14 long years, it appeared to be a time of triumph for Ellen Greenberg’s parents in their battle with Philadelphia to prove she was the victim of homicide, not suicide, by 20 stab wounds.

In exchange for settling their two civil lawsuits against Philadelphia officials, Joshua and Sandee Greenberg were promised an “expeditious” reexamination of the 27-year-old Philadelphia teacher’s death in 2011, revisiting the suicide ruling in the case.

 

[Kimster]

Ellen Greenberg’s parents accuse Philadelphia of ‘trying to block murder investigation’ into daughter’s stabbing death

The Greenbergs claim Philadelphia officials failed to conduct a promised "expeditious" review of their daughter's controversial suicide ruling.

www.pennlive.com

Ellen Greenberg’s parents accuse Philadelphia of ‘trying to block murder investigation’ into daughter’s stabbing death​

After 14 long years, it appeared to be a time of triumph for Ellen Greenberg’s parents in their battle with Philadelphia to prove she was the victim of homicide, not suicide, by 20 stab wounds.

In exchange for settling their two civil lawsuits against Philadelphia officials, Joshua and Sandee Greenberg were promised an “expeditious” reexamination of the 27-year-old Philadelphia teacher’s death in 2011, revisiting the suicide ruling in the case.

Good news! I hope they keep going in the right direction.

 

[SheWhoMustNotBeNamed]

Hearing continues in Ellen Greenberg case as family pushes for autopsy review

The case surrounding the controversial death of Philadelphia teacher Ellen Greenberg returned to court Wednesday afternoon, as attorneys for her family pressed for answers about delays in the independent autopsy review.

6abc.com

Hearing continues in Ellen Greenberg case as family pushes for autopsy review​

The case surrounding the controversial death of Philadelphia teacher Ellen Greenberg returned to court Wednesday afternoon, as attorneys for her family pressed for answers about delays in the independent autopsy review.

Earlier this year, the City of Philadelphia settled two lawsuits with Greenberg's parents, agreeing to reopen and review her 2011 death. A key part of the settlement was that the Philadelphia Medical Examiner's Office would conduct an independent review of the original autopsy. But attorneys for the family say that review has yet to begin.


The Greenbergs continue to seek justice and clarity in the case.

The next hearing on the matter will continue on October 14.

 

[SheWhoMustNotBeNamed]

Philadelphia judge rips city for taking too long to reexamine death of Ellen Greenberg

Ellen Greenberg was discovered in 2011 inside her Manayunk apartment, where she had been stabbed close to two dozen times.

www.cbsnews.com

Philadelphia judge rips city for taking too long to reexamine death of Ellen Greenberg​

A Philadelphia Common Pleas Court judge on Wednesday afternoon blasted the city and its attorneys for the time it's taking to conclude a reexamination of the 2011 suspicious death of Ellen Greenberg.

The schoolteacher was discovered inside her Manayunk apartment, where she had been stabbed close to two dozen times. Her death was initially labeled a suicide, but the medical examiner disagreed, listing the death as a homicide.

Months later, after a meeting of city officials, the ruling was changed back to suicide. In a virtual hearing, Judge Linda Carpenter said she was frustrated and didn't understand why the Philadelphia Medical Examiner's Office was taking so long to reinvestigate Greenberg's death.

Earlier this year, Ellen's parents, Sandra and Joshua Greenberg, reached a settlement with the city.

In exchange for dropping their lawsuit, the city paid them $600,000 and agreed to expeditiously undertake a review of Ellen Greenberg's death. The Greenbergs, their attorneys and the experts they've hired to investigate Ellen's death have maintained she was murdered. This past winter, a former pathologist who performed Ellen Greenberg's autopsy backed away from his ruling that she had died by suicide and, in an affidavit, said her death should be something other than suicide.

That was a major development in a case where it's alleged city officials conspired to cover up a botched police investigation into Ellen Greenberg's death.

A pathologist hired by the family concluded at least one of Ellen Greenberg's stab wounds happened after she had died.

On Wednesday afternoon, Carpenter said even she didn't understand why Ellen Greenberg's death certificate couldn't be changed to "undetermined." She quizzed the attorneys in front of her about why didn't she have the power to change the death certificate.

"I can do that," she said.

Attorneys for the Greenbergs said changing the death certificate to undetermined will allow a law enforcement investigation to begin. A city attorney defended the time that the review has taken, saying a municipal worker strike this summer created challenges, but said the review was well underway.

The judge is allowing the city until Oct. 14 to conclude its re-examination.

 

[Guess Who]

Philadelphia judge rips city for taking too long to reexamine death of Ellen Greenberg

Ellen Greenberg was discovered in 2011 inside her Manayunk apartment, where she had been stabbed close to two dozen times.

www.cbsnews.com

Philadelphia judge rips city for taking too long to reexamine death of Ellen Greenberg​

A Philadelphia Common Pleas Court judge on Wednesday afternoon blasted the city and its attorneys for the time it's taking to conclude a reexamination of the 2011 suspicious death of Ellen Greenberg.

The schoolteacher was discovered inside her Manayunk apartment, where she had been stabbed close to two dozen times. Her death was initially labeled a suicide, but the medical examiner disagreed, listing the death as a homicide.

Months later, after a meeting of city officials, the ruling was changed back to suicide. In a virtual hearing, Judge Linda Carpenter said she was frustrated and didn't understand why the Philadelphia Medical Examiner's Office was taking so long to reinvestigate Greenberg's death.

Earlier this year, Ellen's parents, Sandra and Joshua Greenberg, reached a settlement with the city.

In exchange for dropping their lawsuit, the city paid them $600,000 and agreed to expeditiously undertake a review of Ellen Greenberg's death. The Greenbergs, their attorneys and the experts they've hired to investigate Ellen's death have maintained she was murdered. This past winter, a former pathologist who performed Ellen Greenberg's autopsy backed away from his ruling that she had died by suicide and, in an affidavit, said her death should be something other than suicide.

That was a major development in a case where it's alleged city officials conspired to cover up a botched police investigation into Ellen Greenberg's death.

A pathologist hired by the family concluded at least one of Ellen Greenberg's stab wounds happened after she had died.

On Wednesday afternoon, Carpenter said even she didn't understand why Ellen Greenberg's death certificate couldn't be changed to "undetermined." She quizzed the attorneys in front of her about why didn't she have the power to change the death certificate.

"I can do that," she said.

Attorneys for the Greenbergs said changing the death certificate to undetermined will allow a law enforcement investigation to begin. A city attorney defended the time that the review has taken, saying a municipal worker strike this summer created challenges, but said the review was well underway.

The judge is allowing the city until Oct. 14 to conclude its re-examination.

It was even part of their agreement! I guess they thought it would just go away since they dropped their lawsuit???

In exchange for dropping their lawsuit, the city paid them $600,000 and agreed to expeditiously undertake a review of Ellen Greenberg's death.

 

[Cousin Dupree]

It was even part of their agreement! I guess they thought it would just go away since they dropped their lawsuit???

In exchange for dropping their lawsuit, the city paid them $600,000 and agreed to expeditiously undertake a review of Ellen Greenberg's death.

What is the city trying to hide?

 

[SheWhoMustNotBeNamed]

20 stab wounds, no answers: Hulu series probes Ellen Greenberg’s controversial ‘suicide’

Ellen Greenberg’s parents hope the national spotlight from Hulu’s docuseries finally overturns suicide ruling in her brutal, bloody death.

www.pennlive.com

20 stab wounds, no answers: Hulu series probes Ellen Greenberg’s controversial ‘suicide’​

Ellen Greenberg’s mysterious death by 20 stab wounds is the latest tragedy to be turned into true crime entertainment.

Ellen’s parents, Joshua and Sandee Greenberg, formerly of the Harrisburg area, have no qualms about the popcorn factor surrounding Monday’s premier of the three-part Hulu docuseries on their daughter’s brutal death.

In a phone interview with PennLive from their Florida home, the Greenbergs said they hope the series, “Death in Apartment 603: What Happened to Ellen Greenberg?”, shines nationwide attention on their 14-year fight for “justice for Ellen.”

The series begins streaming Monday on Hulu and Hulu oh Disney+.

 

[SheWhoMustNotBeNamed]

Ellen Greenberg's death again ruled suicide by Philadelphia medical examiner, document shows

Attorneys for the family of Ellen Greenberg confirmed the medical examiner for the city of Philadelphia has again ruled Greenberg's 2011 controversial death a suicide.

www.cbsnews.com

Ellen Greenberg's death again ruled suicide by Philadelphia medical examiner, document shows​

Attorneys for the family of Ellen Greenberg confirm that the medical examiner for the city of Philadelphia has again ruled the 2011 controversial death of Ellen Greenberg a suicide.

The report follows a settlement agreement reached with Philadelphia earlier this year, where the city agreed to reexamine the school teacher's death.

Joseph Podraza Jr., an attorney for the Greenbergs, rebuked the new review by the city's chief medical examiner, Dr. Lindsay Simon, in a statement to CBS News Philadelphia.

"Simon's so-called 'independent review' of Ellen Greenberg's death is a deeply flawed attempt to justify a predetermined conclusion. It includes false claims—like the assertion that a stab wound in Ellen's spinal column was made during autopsy, a theory rejected by every credible expert, including the City's own neuropathologist.

By ignoring key evidence that contradicts suicide—the extensive 3D photogrammetry, a recreation which proves Ellen could not self-inflict all of the wounds, unexplained bruises, missing surveillance footage, an intact lock, accounts of a toxic relationship, etc.—Simon builds a flimsy case on distorted portrayals of Ellen's mental health, propped up by cynical distortions of Ellen's managed anxiety, a condition widely experienced daily by over 40 million Americans. Shame on you Simon.

This report is tripe, an embarrassment to the City, and an insult to Ellen and her family. Ellen's family just wanted the truth. It is clear the truth will not come from Philadelphia's law enforcement machinery. Though Ellen's city turned its back on her, we will continue through other avenues to get justice for her murder, by any means necessary."

 

[Guess Who]

Ellen Greenberg's death again ruled suicide by Philadelphia medical examiner, document shows

Attorneys for the family of Ellen Greenberg confirmed the medical examiner for the city of Philadelphia has again ruled Greenberg's 2011 controversial death a suicide.

www.cbsnews.com

Ellen Greenberg's death again ruled suicide by Philadelphia medical examiner, document shows​

Attorneys for the family of Ellen Greenberg confirm that the medical examiner for the city of Philadelphia has again ruled the 2011 controversial death of Ellen Greenberg a suicide.

The report follows a settlement agreement reached with Philadelphia earlier this year, where the city agreed to reexamine the school teacher's death.

Joseph Podraza Jr., an attorney for the Greenbergs, rebuked the new review by the city's chief medical examiner, Dr. Lindsay Simon, in a statement to CBS News Philadelphia.

"Simon's so-called 'independent review' of Ellen Greenberg's death is a deeply flawed attempt to justify a predetermined conclusion. It includes false claims—like the assertion that a stab wound in Ellen's spinal column was made during autopsy, a theory rejected by every credible expert, including the City's own neuropathologist.

By ignoring key evidence that contradicts suicide—the extensive 3D photogrammetry, a recreation which proves Ellen could not self-inflict all of the wounds, unexplained bruises, missing surveillance footage, an intact lock, accounts of a toxic relationship, etc.—Simon builds a flimsy case on distorted portrayals of Ellen's mental health, propped up by cynical distortions of Ellen's managed anxiety, a condition widely experienced daily by over 40 million Americans. Shame on you Simon.

This report is tripe, an embarrassment to the City, and an insult to Ellen and her family. Ellen's family just wanted the truth. It is clear the truth will not come from Philadelphia's law enforcement machinery. Though Ellen's city turned its back on her, we will continue through other avenues to get justice for her murder, by any means necessary."

 

[Cousin Dupree]

Ellen Greenberg's death again ruled suicide by Philadelphia medical examiner, document shows

Attorneys for the family of Ellen Greenberg confirmed the medical examiner for the city of Philadelphia has again ruled Greenberg's 2011 controversial death a suicide.

www.cbsnews.com

Ellen Greenberg's death again ruled suicide by Philadelphia medical examiner, document shows​

Attorneys for the family of Ellen Greenberg confirm that the medical examiner for the city of Philadelphia has again ruled the 2011 controversial death of Ellen Greenberg a suicide.

The report follows a settlement agreement reached with Philadelphia earlier this year, where the city agreed to reexamine the school teacher's death.

Joseph Podraza Jr., an attorney for the Greenbergs, rebuked the new review by the city's chief medical examiner, Dr. Lindsay Simon, in a statement to CBS News Philadelphia.

"Simon's so-called 'independent review' of Ellen Greenberg's death is a deeply flawed attempt to justify a predetermined conclusion. It includes false claims—like the assertion that a stab wound in Ellen's spinal column was made during autopsy, a theory rejected by every credible expert, including the City's own neuropathologist.

By ignoring key evidence that contradicts suicide—the extensive 3D photogrammetry, a recreation which proves Ellen could not self-inflict all of the wounds, unexplained bruises, missing surveillance footage, an intact lock, accounts of a toxic relationship, etc.—Simon builds a flimsy case on distorted portrayals of Ellen's mental health, propped up by cynical distortions of Ellen's managed anxiety, a condition widely experienced daily by over 40 million Americans. Shame on you Simon.

This report is tripe, an embarrassment to the City, and an insult to Ellen and her family. Ellen's family just wanted the truth. It is clear the truth will not come from Philadelphia's law enforcement machinery. Though Ellen's city turned its back on her, we will continue through other avenues to get justice for her murder, by any means necessary."

Somebody is pulling strings on this.

 

[GrandmaBear]

I feel so sorry for her parents and more so am angered for them, very much so. I've watched a couple of things on this already.

The corruption runs deep in PA.

 

[GrandmaBear]

This is great news if true and knowing the channel, I'm sure it is. The show does not come on until later.

 

[GrandmaBear]

A short from him on it.

 

[SheWhoMustNotBeNamed]

Ellen Greenberg's family celebrates prospect of federal investigation into her death

The family of Ellen Greenberg is celebrating the prospect of a federal investigation into the way various agencies in Philadelphia handled her 2011 death.

abcnews.go.com

Ellen Greenberg's family celebrates prospect of federal investigation into her death​

The family of Ellen Greenberg is celebrating the prospect of a federal investigation into the way various agencies in Philadelphia handled her death.

The Philadelphia Inquirer reported Thursday that the U.S. Attorney's office for the Eastern District of Pennsylvania issued subpoenas as part of an inquiry into whether Greenberg's death was properly investigated.

The family of the 27-year-old teacher has long claimed the case was "embarrassingly botched" and warranted additional investigation.

"The prospects of the federal United States attorneys investigating any aspect of Ellen's murder is a dream come true for [her parents] Sandee and Josh," family attorney Joseph Podraza said in a statement to ABC News. "We have only wanted justice for Ellen and now have renewed hope this will occur. Sandee and Josh and their lawyers will continue to pursue and support all avenues to secure justice in this matter."

The US Attorney’s office for the Eastern District of Pennsylvania declined to comment. ABC News has reached out to various offices involved in Greenberg’s case, including the Philadelphia District Attorney’s office and the Pennsylvania Attorney General’s office, which have not immediately returned request for comment.

 

[GrandmaBear]

The parents are going to be on STS where they've come on many times. I think it's still upcoming but I could be wrong and maybe they already did the show. I'll look.