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JONBENET RAMSEY - Found dead in Boulder, Colorado on Christmas Day 1996 - Age 6
- Thread starter GrandmaBear
- Start date
Cousin Dupree
Glory to #Ukraine 🇺🇦✊🏻
Yeah, I've wondered about that too. It's just an expression that's used in a general way.
GrandmaBear
Deputized Emu Slayer/Horse Thief Hunter
Their motivation is to SA that child. No? That's the driven motivation to which they can hardly be cured and their overriding unbridled focus. Not to write letters and take time. I am not a statitistics type who believes in all but I do believe in most pedophile child taking, SA cases, the child is dead within an hour or two tops. MOST. They don't sit down in the house of the parents and child and write letters and take the time, nor taunt.
Serial killers on the other hand do taunt and dare and so on. It's just too much to believe without making up reasons for each thing in this case. Imo.
So no one expected a call from the kidnapper or waited with anxiety and over the top panic? That's just too out there for me to believe. Of course friends would not have the sheer out of control emotions the parents would. Or should as the case may be. That's beyond comprehension to me.
And of course a reason or excuse can probably be made for that as well but when there is too much need for such, it is game over for me. Explanations for everything.
What I understand about sexual predators is that they're often sadistic and to me, taunting is sadistic behavior.
I don't think anyone knew what to expect, including Arndt, but I'm sure there was anxiety.
And I'm sure there was hope that there would be a call that day rather than the next.
GrandmaBear
Deputized Emu Slayer/Horse Thief Hunter
I don't know. I don't see that with most child predators. They have their need, they snatch, they do and then they kill and dispose. Sickly. Sadly.
Of course there have been a few who imprison and keep their victim for years. They don't contact or taunt either, they don't want to be caught, they just wanted their child sex slave. Sick. Perveted. Disgusting.
Serial killers taunt.
This case fits none of the above here. Because imo it was not a child sexual predator. They didn't snatch and take off with her, do their sick thing and kill and dispose. They took TIME.... For a note, for a garrote and more. They got in no problem, why not out no problem?
I'm not saying every case matches or predator or there can't be a one off but it isn't the case in this one. iti s in the family. Not forcing my opinion o you ro anyone just stating mine. I don't think it will ever change. I've been through it a million times, read every rabbit hole (kazillions) that exist out there, relooked with fresh perspective after years and come back to the same.
There wasn't a call either day was there... There is just too much and always has been that has to be explained away. Imo this is a case the perp will never see justice on earth by mankind's court and justice system but they will or have seen it elsewhere and answered for it and another imo one day will most likely. They have suffered public scrutiny and comment and always will until all of us and they die. And in generations to come with no answers it will still likely be looked at after we are all gone.
We don't agree but in some we do. It is interesting to discuss such.
For me it is Patsy. Burke is a possibility, even John is who doesn't get it as much but it is family. Of course that's just my opinion. In this case, millions have their own opinions and they vary widely.
If JB was not a pageant child, and they lived in the middle of nowhere where the child had no exposure I think some out there would still think some weirdo came into their home, wrote this note, left her dead in the home and skedaddled.
It was Christmas, no harder time for someone wanting to have perfection and show that perfection and nothing was perfection and Patsy snapped when JB also overexcited or overtired did something but John was in bed and of no help, etc. Do I know this 100 percent? Of course not. However, it is very strong and by far the most likely. She wrote the ridiculous note. That in and of itself is plenty.
I think that is known far more than we have ever heard that it was her.
Here is an interesting perhaps tidbit of my life. I know of handwriting experts, etc. from when young working for attorneys. One time there was an anonymous letter in my life and I needed to prove who wrote it. I was typed, not handwritten. I looked for a top expert in the states and asked if such could be done with typed letters. Lo and behold, yes. I also had an example in the court case of a letter filed and sent both and paid for it. The way of "talking" the errors, etc. were all the same as I knew myself but I wanted an expert to say how obvious it was. EVERYTHING. Punctuation, spacing, etc. Wording. And that was TYPED. I guarantee you true experts know if Patsy wrote this letter even IF she tried to change her handwriting if they have comparative examples. It is not ONLY the handwriting that gets looked at.
Of course had there been a trial defense would find an expert to say otherwise, paid whore of an expert, but it is just a no brainer to me that she wrote this and I'd guess to any TRUE expert in the field with things to compare it to it is a slam dunk.
Anyhow, on this one we won't likely agree and another long post by me sorry lol. I have a lot of reasons for my opinion, would it gain a conviction, who knows but it was never going to get charged anyhow even when a grand jury decided as long as that DA was in office. That alone is wrong. A DA should never have the power to not do as the PEOPLE and grand jury decided. Soooo wrong.
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But we couldn't know whether this perp would be classified as a child predator, we only can appreciate that JonBenet was a vulnerable victim, as sexual predator victims always are in some way or another.
As for "why not out no problem?", Lou Smit theorized that he exited the same way he entered because of security alarm stickers on doors and windows. (I don't know precisely where those were but I imagine they would have been on the first floor of the house.)
GrandmaBear
Deputized Emu Slayer/Horse Thief Hunter
This is one we are not likely to ever agree on. I'm open to all possibilities but firm in my likely one and have been through it all, as most of us have, a kazillion times over many years.
JB was vulnerable, yes, she is a small child but I don't see a child predator in this home writing a note and so on. I just don't for reasons that have been talked of many times.
Exited how, through the basement window? This theoretical perp went to her bedroom supposedly, got her someone quietly or with no one awaking, took her downstaira and further to the basement or got her to go there, killed her, fashioned a garrote and so on, did his act, sat down most likely and practiced and wrote a note, and also entered and existed and so on and has never been found. This was and still is one lucky perp. Seems like a stupid perp doing as he did with the note and all but still not caught.
I don't expect you to have the same theory nor think any of us can convince the other of their own, I do like discussion. I do nkow Lou Smit put a lot of effort into other theories and possibilities. Of course just about anything is possible but I think where this went early on is where is stays and that's on Patsy or some member of or combination of the family. Two big mistakes were the note and not getting her out of the house. I believe they'd have liked to/preferred to so they put her as far as they could and staged it all. I'm not even sure JB did not follow P downstairs or interrupt her taking care of gifts, packing or last minute Christmas things....
I'm not real happy when I accuse a person I don't know 100 percent to be guilty, a mother, etc. but that's where the bulk of this comes down to and LE themselves was always hard looking at her. Well some anyhow. That note alone and the fact she can't be excluded is plenty. All on its own. Her notepad, their house, practicing, TIME, knowledge of bonus, far fetched thing as a "group in it and just a lot more.
No child pred planned and framed here in all these ways. Imo. The child pred would generally have one purpose and it is not to take their timea anywhere but with the child and then be gone.
I think the fact this was a blonde dolled up made up pageant child lends to why so mean lean towards the pedo thing despite the fact she was in the home and all the other red flags like the note. I think Patsy (or both) went with the obvious, centering on the pedo thing, the money thing and want to kidnap a child such as her thing and actually went to too much and many things. Garrotte, note, bonus, kidnapping when she was never kidnapped from the home at all, etc. There's even the chance it was one plan and then it could not be carried out or finished in the way they'd hoped to and then adapted it. For instance maybe when note was written they still intended to remove her body and so on. It's so many directions that it is just too ridiculous to me also. WAs it about a pedo wanting the child for obvious reasons or was it about MONEY? Ransom? Bonus? Or was it about some faction after John and them after all they are such a wealthy important family? Not im my opinion but I can see it in Patsy's who wanted to appear to be that imo always.
For me it is actually too obvious and it's all the other wild things and elsewise through the years that fuzz it. Strip all away and to me it is pretty clear. I don't think it's a deep mystery at all but a sadly somewhat typical one not unheard of. To me not just the note but the writing on the wall is pretty clear.
I also do believe because of who they were and who they knew, they were not treated nor was the scene and more as they should have been and were given kid glove treatment and that it even went beyond that.
It's good to get it out once in awhile, dust it off and discuss it though. LE failed JB. And a DA who hid the fact the GJ indicted and refused to charge when a JURY decided has way more power than that person should. Imo. Should NOT eve be ALLOWED.
Jmo though of course.
Cousin Dupree
Glory to #Ukraine 🇺🇦✊🏻
The way in and the way out that was allegedly used by the perp had an undisturbed spiders web in it. According to James Kolar, the spider's web could not be there if someone had entered through the basement window. It would have been pushed out of the way.
GrandmaBear
Deputized Emu Slayer/Horse Thief Hunter
No footprints if I recall, staged suitcase I believe I recall. Staged because entry and exit was never made this way. In fact, no stranger entered that house that night imo.
I'd also add that I guess it is not impossible for a child predator to strike on Christmas Eve/early Christmas morn but to murder in THE HOME, write a note full of ransom talk hey never collected and they never had the child to return anyhow NOR was she missing, she was THERE. A stranger would I would think picture a family with kids being up late or early on Christmas morn with children excited for Santa and so on, the person would sure no be certain all he did in that house would not be caught nor no one awaken.
It's just more that is far fetched to me to add to a ton of other.
It is the highest stressed time of the year. And for perfectionists or ones worried about image it is BEYOND that, way BEYOND and kids or one who perhaps wasn't behaving or had that one accident too many. Patsy already led a life she couldn't cope with well and a put on image imo year round with high stress. And these were ages most parents would hope to be a bit easier by then. Past potty training and bed wetting ages (for most anyhow), going to school, a lot to do but a bit of time to self, kids old enough not to have to watch QUITE as closely as two year old, older brother helping take care of little sister and teach her things and be her protector... I don't see much of this in this household.
Anyhow, not going to on again or into all tons of things that have been talked of plenty. I dont' believe anyone, stranger or someone known to family, entered that house and did something to Jon Benet.
One thing I'd love to have seen is JB as a real child and not an artificial made up one. You know a picture of her playing in the mud with mud in her hair. A picture or video of her running around at a park with friends not all curled, bleached and so on. A picture of her on the floor playing with baby dolls or painting with a playmate visiting. Maybe with Cheeto hands and orange mouth.
It's all just so darned fake, rigid but behind the scenes chaos if you ask me. She expects such but SHE herself can't do it and likely blames the kids for all the laundry, the mess, the dishes and so on because she herself CANNOT do it all.
That's how I see her. Can't help it. I see her as a Mommy Dearest type.
Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but isn't there some account of them getting on the private plane or jet probably to go to MI and her having hauled on bunches of black garbage bags full of laundry or some such? Did it come from the pilot or an employee at the air strip or some such...?
I also don't think this marriage was great and more. They DID stick it out after though, what else would you do, you are both in the same boat looked at by all and wondered about...
I also think John helped with the cover up. Not sure exactly WHEN but I suspect he did the basement thing when it was realized they just couldn't explain not calling in not too late on Christmas Day. What perfect parents with an image at least mom don't have kids up excited early, mom is up even earlier making sure all is ready and right and getting things ready for a Christmas breakfast. It simply would not be believed if your 6 year old woke at 10 or you had to wake her up to do Christmas morning gifts.... Not to mention if Burke woke up. I think it was just too much risk and too little time to take her out of the home... People saying oh yeah, we saw John headed out of town on Christmas morning and a neighbor saying, he didn't pull back til like two hours later...
What I mean by when is was he up or asleep when Patsy lost it? Did she first panic and try to do the note and in panic try to figure out how to cover it herself... Or was he awake or even were they all when this happened...? I think the not that bright of a thought weird note fits Patsy, sorry, but I do, plus her handwriting is an issue. John, as a business exec and older you wouldn't THINK to live in such imaginary out there stuff and expect others to buy it... Maybe he woke up to her writing the note, to JB dead OR as we know, wasn't the note placed on the one stairway and not the other...
Anyhow, I meant to stop and am going to now.
There really is not one bit of evidence anyone else entered this home. None. On Christmas Eve no less when almost all families have a heck of a lot going on and to do.
And I stand by also what I said about a DA NOT having to go with what a grand jury decides as if all powerful. LIke that isn't powers that be, who you are and connections affecting justice...
I'd also add that I guess it is not impossible for a child predator to strike on Christmas Eve/early Christmas morn but to murder in THE HOME, write a note full of ransom talk hey never collected and they never had the child to return anyhow NOR was she missing, she was THERE. A stranger would I would think picture a family with kids being up late or early on Christmas morn with children excited for Santa and so on, the person would sure no be certain all he did in that house would not be caught nor no one awaken.
It's just more that is far fetched to me to add to a ton of other.
It is the highest stressed time of the year. And for perfectionists or ones worried about image it is BEYOND that, way BEYOND and kids or one who perhaps wasn't behaving or had that one accident too many. Patsy already led a life she couldn't cope with well and a put on image imo year round with high stress. And these were ages most parents would hope to be a bit easier by then. Past potty training and bed wetting ages (for most anyhow), going to school, a lot to do but a bit of time to self, kids old enough not to have to watch QUITE as closely as two year old, older brother helping take care of little sister and teach her things and be her protector... I don't see much of this in this household.
Anyhow, not going to on again or into all tons of things that have been talked of plenty. I dont' believe anyone, stranger or someone known to family, entered that house and did something to Jon Benet.
One thing I'd love to have seen is JB as a real child and not an artificial made up one. You know a picture of her playing in the mud with mud in her hair. A picture or video of her running around at a park with friends not all curled, bleached and so on. A picture of her on the floor playing with baby dolls or painting with a playmate visiting. Maybe with Cheeto hands and orange mouth.
It's all just so darned fake, rigid but behind the scenes chaos if you ask me. She expects such but SHE herself can't do it and likely blames the kids for all the laundry, the mess, the dishes and so on because she herself CANNOT do it all.
That's how I see her. Can't help it. I see her as a Mommy Dearest type.
Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but isn't there some account of them getting on the private plane or jet probably to go to MI and her having hauled on bunches of black garbage bags full of laundry or some such? Did it come from the pilot or an employee at the air strip or some such...?
I also don't think this marriage was great and more. They DID stick it out after though, what else would you do, you are both in the same boat looked at by all and wondered about...
I also think John helped with the cover up. Not sure exactly WHEN but I suspect he did the basement thing when it was realized they just couldn't explain not calling in not too late on Christmas Day. What perfect parents with an image at least mom don't have kids up excited early, mom is up even earlier making sure all is ready and right and getting things ready for a Christmas breakfast. It simply would not be believed if your 6 year old woke at 10 or you had to wake her up to do Christmas morning gifts.... Not to mention if Burke woke up. I think it was just too much risk and too little time to take her out of the home... People saying oh yeah, we saw John headed out of town on Christmas morning and a neighbor saying, he didn't pull back til like two hours later...
What I mean by when is was he up or asleep when Patsy lost it? Did she first panic and try to do the note and in panic try to figure out how to cover it herself... Or was he awake or even were they all when this happened...? I think the not that bright of a thought weird note fits Patsy, sorry, but I do, plus her handwriting is an issue. John, as a business exec and older you wouldn't THINK to live in such imaginary out there stuff and expect others to buy it... Maybe he woke up to her writing the note, to JB dead OR as we know, wasn't the note placed on the one stairway and not the other...
Anyhow, I meant to stop and am going to now.
There really is not one bit of evidence anyone else entered this home. None. On Christmas Eve no less when almost all families have a heck of a lot going on and to do.
And I stand by also what I said about a DA NOT having to go with what a grand jury decides as if all powerful. LIke that isn't powers that be, who you are and connections affecting justice...
I don't come to that conclusion.
If there was such an undisturbed spiderweb, it wasn't documented.
It wasn't Christmas Eve, it was the next night.
Sometime after a Christmas breakfast/brunch with the kids, John transported gifts to the plane to take to Michigan with them the following morn.
GrandmaBear
Deputized Emu Slayer/Horse Thief Hunter
She was found ead on Christmas Day no? This happened in the overnight before and that is Christmas Eve? Or is the title and dates in this thread incorrect?
GrandmaBear
Deputized Emu Slayer/Horse Thief Hunter
Okay I googled. You are right. This case has had so much and been hot and cold through the years with each of us... Now that I see it and hear the trip thing, it all rings a bell along with the trip and more comes back some.
Well this thread title needs to be changed then. Every time I am in here, to confirm what I think, I look above for the date and got it there. I disliske that I also have posts in here then referring to what I thought was Christmas Eve as I like to be accurate and not have others starting to think the same if the date is wrong.
It doesn't change much for me but now rings some bells and more will come back as I think on it as I wondered about a few things date wise with what I thought back when. It won't make me lean the other way but have the same reasons and more to still lean as I do.
Thank you for pointing that out.
And I don't think I am thinking about gifts or even necessarily that trip with garbage bags of laundry... Maybe though. Have to get my head around the new date (which I used to know but guess trusted and changed to the date above) and get some time.
Surprised you or no one ever pointed it out before but maybe you don't look to it as you recall. I did but think that made me think I was wrong and adopted that day.
Well this thread title needs to be changed then. Every time I am in here, to confirm what I think, I look above for the date and got it there. I disliske that I also have posts in here then referring to what I thought was Christmas Eve as I like to be accurate and not have others starting to think the same if the date is wrong.
It doesn't change much for me but now rings some bells and more will come back as I think on it as I wondered about a few things date wise with what I thought back when. It won't make me lean the other way but have the same reasons and more to still lean as I do.
Thank you for pointing that out.
And I don't think I am thinking about gifts or even necessarily that trip with garbage bags of laundry... Maybe though. Have to get my head around the new date (which I used to know but guess trusted and changed to the date above) and get some time.
Surprised you or no one ever pointed it out before but maybe you don't look to it as you recall. I did but think that made me think I was wrong and adopted that day.
GrandmaBear
Deputized Emu Slayer/Horse Thief Hunter
OH BOY, not I see I started the thread it appears, so if I did the title, I got the date wrong. My mistake.
Cousin Dupree
Glory to #Ukraine 🇺🇦✊🏻
You can see it in the evidence pictures.
(If I'd ever noticed it in the title, it hadn't registered. Lol!)Well this thread title needs to be changed then. Every time I am in here, to confirm what I think, I look above for the date and got it there. I disliske that I also have posts in here then referring to what I thought was Christmas Eve as I like to be accurate and not have others starting to think the same if the date is wrong.
It doesn't change much for me but now rings some bells and more will come back as I think on it as I wondered about a few things date wise with what I thought back when. It won't make me lean the other way but have the same reasons and more to still lean as I do.
Thank you for pointing that out.
Surprised you or no one ever pointed it out before but maybe you don't look to it as you recall. I did but think that made me think I was wrong and adopted that day.
You're welcome. I had noticed it in your recent posts, but like you say, I didn't think it'd matter to you.
That no one pointed it out, I'm actually not surprised.
Well I don't know anything about garbage bags of laundry.
I beg your pardon, are you speaking for me? Lol!
Yeah, I've seen photos and video- same as you have, I imagine- and I've never seen any such thing.
GrandmaBear
Deputized Emu Slayer/Horse Thief Hunter
I'm going to front this by saying, I don't have all the details clear and do not know who it came from but it was someone at the airport or the pilot of the flight and memory isn't perfect but here is what I do recall or think I do:
I'm not positive but I do not think it was about THIS trip and it was not I don't believe John bringing things to the plane before this one, like gifts. It was talked of in a way of showing Patsy and how this was no perfect mother, the stress, the not keeping up, the front put on to public but then not prepared to go or laundry done on some trip in the past. I am also not going to say that this would even be found in LE records of the case, but I do believe it came from like the pilot... Or someone in the small hanger, airport or whatever but it was an airport person or pilot, pretty sure on that.
She wasn't packed, did not have them ready and she just took all smelly laundry, etc. to take care of in MI if I recall. Heck maybe it was the person having to load it sounds familiar...I
recall talk about how she was dressed, she was rushed, maybe they were even late...? Or was it this one and she was in the same clothes as night before...?
What am I thinking of? Did they GO on this trip after daughter found dead?
Am I mixing up two things....? Trips?
It was not John taking gifts ahead. It was last minute, that much I recall and related to Patsy or them all showing and the last minute rush and hold up to make it on some trip of theirs. Totally unprepared and stressed.
I am sure of a few things and one is it came from someone at the airport. Not another guest but some employee or someone who unloaded and loaded or the pilot...I'm also fairly certain she or they were late or close to it for take off and she was entirely unprepared and unpolished (her usual public appearance/look) and stressed. It was Boulder, it was the private plane/jet.
I wish my recall was better, could be my memory or just that it is one of those cases with so much through so many decades, hard to recall all as time goes on.
Did they go on the trip they had planned before her murder? Why am I almost thinking they did... Where one would assume of course not... Guarantee you I used to know and if refreshed would know... You are far better with the recall on this one so I'm sure you know although you do not seem to be aware of somet things that others are either.
Anyhow, just asking. I certainly am not fully clear on what I recall but I recall a lot of it.
GrandmaBear
Deputized Emu Slayer/Horse Thief Hunter
I have heard this and I think it is fact and there were a lot of pictures at some point released that never had been before. They for some reason did not hit far and widei imo as they should have and I think the release had to be FOIA or pushed for. I don't recall re the spider web in a pic so am not going to say one way or the other if fact it was in a picture, but he stated it is, as fact, and so should be able to produce, link the photo.
I don't believe though for a minute someone came in and out that way. Never have, for several reasons.
Cousin Dupree
Glory to #Ukraine 🇺🇦✊🏻
I was speaking to everyone, just as all of us are, I would think. If I make a point others have responded to it, whether or not they were the ones I was responding to. It's how we put out facts for everybody. There should be no rule that you can only respond to one person. JMO
The Broken Window In JonBenet Ramsey's House Is Part Of The "Intruder Theory"
When JonBenét Ramsey was found murdered in her family's basement on Dec. 26, 1996, many members of law enforcement and the public formed strong opinions about who could have committed the crime. All three members of the Ramsey family maintained…
Though the window in question happened to be in the basement, where JonBenét's body was found, it may be completely unrelated to the crime itself. According to The Denver Post, John Ramsey told investigators that he broke the window when he was locked out of the house at some point before the murder. It was unclear how long the window had been broken, but the newspaper noted that a spider web had formed on the window-well grate outside by the time of JonBenét's murder.
My understanding is that on the morn of Dec 26th, they were to meet-up with the older children in Minnesota and then all fly from there to Michigan.
I don't know anything about any such trip, much less where it came from, and you go on and on about stress for all sorts of reasons and I don't know where that comes from, either.