NY DOROTHY ARNOLD: Missing from New York, NY - 12 December 1910 - Age 25


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On December 12, 1910, Arnold left to go shopping for a dress and was seen by a cashier as well as a friend on Fifth Avenue. She told the friend that she had planned to walk through Central Park before returning home. That evening, when Arnold failed to return home for dinner, her family grew suspicious.



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I am not familiar with NYC at all either and then even if one was, back more than 100 years ago, it is gong to be entirely different and so is the landscape going to be and the population but it's always been I know this much a main hub in our nation, enter Ellis Island for instance where most of our ancestors entered through. It established ahead and first over many an area and we know just from novels and other things that it was a place that high society tended to live and as you said trade, importing, we know banking, at some point the stock exchange, etc.

Of course, nowadays i'd think of course the subway would be right at Central Park's door and about with a stop everywhere in NY but train stations, not as sure. But it wouldn't seem too unlikely Central Park wouldn't be far from one. It existed then clearly from this story and so was an early part of NYC and a big thing there. I've always had the impression it was in the main hub area, 5th Avenue, etc. through my lifetime anyhow but at some point of course as time went on what was a gorgeous and nice park for society to go to, ride through, etc. of course these days is going to attract another ilk. And in that day probably did to a point as well but crime wasn't like it is today. Just my guesses.

So she liked to walk and would walk 50 blocks to reach the stores and they let her. You know I guess I shouldn't be surprised I suppose. Times were different no matter where we lived and people trusted their areas and didn't hear of all we hear of today but still.

And I also don't know NYC but over the years of being an avid reader (I do little these days) my impression of Central Park is that it's huge for the average size of something in NYC where things are now squashed together and went up into high rises to fit more and more people. In my head if I recall it has ice skating in the winter, used to back in the day have pony rides, people took an outing in their carriage to drive Central Park, etc. did they not? Water, a fair amount of acres of grass and so on and lanes or paths.

And was there only one train station in those years... I would say it was close because it existed then, if only one. It was sure big ENOUGH then although probably not the size of today if her home in high society was 50 blocks from the shops on 5th Avenue. Of course you'd want to be in the nicer area probably established for the rich but not right on top of or next door to the shops.

It remains odd to me they would "let" her do this much less walk 50 blocks alone in that day and age. I tell myself it's probably far more dangerous today but they were society people. But maybe that alone left them feeling untouched or no one would be dumb enough to touch one of them. Heck you can get into the 60s and it was a thing for a woman to be out alone yet, taking a train alone or anything else. Not just for crime but because it just wasn't "done".

So I did not know this either, you are saying she DID walk that day? Where was she last seen that can be relied on if there's anything at all to be sure of that?

Also her dad thinking she was killed in the park and dumped in (I know what you mean what is it) a man made lake, reservoir, pond tells me that even back then they thought such risky and dangerous if that's where he believed something happened to her.

Here real lakes and such wouldn't be frozen to much depth if temps stayed from 25 and up or necessarily even safe to walk on and certainly not to drive on. And some areas will remain with open water but these are real lakes and currents, bridges, etc. Where I grew up one area is always risky where it goes under a bridge and myself i'd never trust it but some idiots do.

Interesting this is what her dad figured, imo. That tells me imo that they wouldn't have been in agreement with her going there alone and so I am asking did they know her plan to do so and just could not keep her from doing what she wanted or they found out afterwards it was part of her day's plan of shopping, a walk in the park, etc.?

When I first came in just days ago and skimmed the bit, it seemed to me they knew of her plans. I could be wrong.

Dad seems to come back in this short time, front and center a lot. I don't mean he did anything to her but I mean thinking she died in Central Park, declaring her dead in his will, worried about what society would think and you name it.

Saying he'd have let her date and even wished she'd do so more or see nice solid men more or however you put it, gives me an impression but you can feel that he means certain types, good types of course and so on.

I'm starting to get an impression and perhaps I'm wrong and I'm going on the very little bit here and things you've shared that he was a controlling type but when one has that, one often rebels at some point, and perhaps he couldn't keep Dorothy in line at 25 or even before and thought she'd be raised, married and so on. And SO worried about status and appearance. Money seems to play in here too and I don't mean in the way of course it mattered to someone of such society but I mean that Dorothy would have to pawn stuff. And so he's supporting a daughter as an adult who maybe cost a fair amount and was also taking risks and being wayward and that could risk their reputation and status, and he may be kept her or tried to on a tight leash as far as with spending money, not that he should be having to support her at 25 but back then well women didn't have the same options and you're not going to have your daughter seen if you are high society working teh streets or serving coffee at some dive of a diner, etc. Perhaps working at Saks or Macy's if they were around back then and even then people would likely talk that his daughter had to WORKKK??

With your help, since I know little, I'm refining thoughts. Again, I'm not saying dad did anything to her. I am thinking though that there was friction, and with the worry about appearance and being young, strictness or an attempt to be with money, and she likely made none of her own and the way out is a man. Or some form of income of your own, not so easy for her and at that time imo.

It's archaic but it's just true. In ALMOST all cases, you married, the woman was home with the kids and the man brought home the bacon so to speak and that's not even high society where you wouldn't be allowed to take some low level job and embarrass the family...

So dad sounds tight with the money and not necessarily wrongfully so. Maybe Dorothy cost a lot and it was the only way he had of her not gallivanting and spending a week with a lover, etc... And that would leave her if the money was not just given freely to some 25 year old doing her own thing needing money, hence the pawning, etc. The fact she would pawn things some family of their ilk would consider important and even go to pawn them, tells me she was somewhat rebellious and probably against the structures of "society" and her dad, etc.... If most of us are honest, every generation is a bit in these age ranges not in sync meaning from the time we are in our teens to early 20s and those are the years not by law but but nature we are looking to separate and find our own way while parents are trying to ensure that way is right, etc. Add in rules and you are 25 and make no money of your own... And no outs for women for centuries OTHER than a man to take dad's place... Seriously.

With knowing little, like I said, dad keeps playing back in here. Again, not that I necessarily think he did anything to her but of causing Dorothy to do or be, or to even sway things (attacked and dumped in Central Park). I still find the part she had the money on her interesting and in my head this can't be proven right? How could it be proven? Probably came from dad/or mom saying so. And then you said which I don't know the story of she had pawned things previously. That tells me dad didn't give her money or enough of it in her opinion to do her things. So why would he on this occasion? She also had played the parents if true lying and spending a week with George....

But on this day supposedly she had a lot of money, from dad supposedly right?

If I have anything wrong here, let me know AT your leisure. This case hasn't gone anywhere for over 100 years right. No rush.

I am getting to dialing in a little bit with the more info. Not saying figuring out or knowing, just a better feeling of the family dynamic, etc.

This is a brief thread and so I don't have the info you do. So I am guessing her pawning stuff previously comes from that you have followed and know the case and I take all you say as fact and know if speculation you pretty much show that but pawning is pretty much fact right?
I think, I am not sure if it was Dorothy or the Borden sisters, that received an allowance of $25.00 per week from their father/parents for their own expenses and amusements. That would be $100.00 per month, which would go a LONG way In 1910.Especially if Dorothy saved a lot of it in a secret account or stashed cash in her room and took it with her. Pinned to her corset or hidden in a hat or that enormous muff.Not saying she did any of that, but she could have.

Women of her social standing probably were not expected to have paid employment. Just live at home until the marriage proposal came and then start planning the wedding, with Mother's help and guidance.

Volunteer work for a couple of charities of course would be completely socially acceptable. Certainly be on church committees as a volunteer, or sing in the choir. Help plan a bake sale or charity dance to benefit a NYC orphanage. A gala to benefit the art museum, orchestra, or new opera company. Knit, sew, or crochet items for the Retired Persons Home or the Tuberculosis Sanitorium, etc.
 
I think, I am not sure if it was Dorothy or the Borden sisters, that received an allowance of $25.00 per week from their father/parents for their own expenses and amusements. That would be $100.00 per month, which would go a LONG way In 1910.Especially if Dorothy saved a lot of it in a secret account or stashed cash in her room and took it with her. Pinned to her corset or hidden in a hat or that enormous muff.Not saying she did any of that, but she could have.

Women of her social standing probably were not expected to have paid employment. Just live at home until the marriage proposal came and then start planning the wedding, with Mother's help and guidance.

Volunteer work for a couple of charities of course would be completely socially acceptable. Certainly be on church committees as a volunteer, or sing in the choir. Help plan a bake sale or charity dance to benefit a NYC orphanage. A gala to benefit the art museum, orchestra, or new opera company. Knit, sew, or crochet items for the Retired Persons Home or the Tuberculosis Sanitorium, etc.
I very much agree. Who do you mean of the Borden sisters? Lizzie? Not sure I knew she had a sister. You take me back honestly. I don't do the historical novels and that kind of thing any longer and who hasn''t heard of the Bordens if that is who you mean.

I also looked at your link for the book and was not sure how to navigate but finally picked from a side list a text version and read a ton of pages this morning but didn't seem to be about her but was that kind of historical fiction, differently worded, etc. About a woman with one man but then another, Dyson, I think was the first and how her parents and sister warned her and then she came to realize how he'd played her. I did not have the time to continue but felt I had stepped back into some historical romance.

That is a ton of money for an allowance and it would have been even in the 60s and 70s imo. Most kids especially those of means I wouldn't say knew to save necessarily but perhaps.

I agree and kind of tried to say the same, women who had parents that worried about status would not have wanted their daughter seen in some cafe serving coffee or even any job necessarily so even if she wanted one, folks may have said NO, what would people say?!! That we can't support you and so you need to work even at somewhere like Macy's?!

Volunteer work I'd agree. All would be acceptable.

Enjoying discussing this with you and thanks for the insight. I normally don't follow many back when cases, more into the current but this one grabbed my attention and is a nice distraction. Plus a lot of cases have no discussion at all.
 
I very much agree. Who do you mean of the Borden sisters? Lizzie? Not sure I knew she had a sister. You take me back honestly. I don't do the historical novels and that kind of thing any longer and who hasn''t heard of the Bordens if that is who you mean.

I also looked at your link for the book and was not sure how to navigate but finally picked from a side list a text version and read a ton of pages this morning but didn't seem to be about her but was that kind of historical fiction, differently worded, etc. About a woman with one man but then another, Dyson, I think was the first and how her parents and sister warned her and then she came to realize how he'd played her. I did not have the time to continue but felt I had stepped back into some historical romance.

That is a ton of money for an allowance and it would have been even in the 60s and 70s imo. Most kids especially those of means I wouldn't say knew to save necessarily but perhaps.

I agree and kind of tried to say the same, women who had parents that worried about status would not have wanted their daughter seen in some cafe serving coffee or even any job necessarily so even if she wanted one, folks may have said NO, what would people say?!! That we can't support you and so you need to work even at somewhere like Macy's?!

Volunteer work I'd agree. All would be acceptable.

Enjoying discussing this with you and thanks for the insight. I normally don't follow many back when cases, more into the current but this one grabbed my attention and is a nice distraction. Plus a lot of cases have no discussion at all.
Engaged Girl Sketches is not about Dorothy. It is short fictional stories about women who are engaged to be married. It is the book that Dorothy bought at the bookstore the day she vanished. May be she was trying to send a message to her family and friends because of the book title? Or am I overthinking it?
 
Engaged Girl Sketches is not about Dorothy. It is short fictional stories about women who are engaged to be married. It is the book that Dorothy bought at the bookstore the day she vanished. May be she was trying to send a message to her family and friends because of the book title? Or am I overthinking it?
Oh. I knew that on some level when I first fast read your post I think but forgot on reading a number of pages of it. So yes, and you said that, sorry, that she was reading a book about something she was doing or thinking about.

I do NOT think you are overthinking it. Considering she disappeared AND had bought a book like that AND her 40 year old BF saying if she came back, he'd marry her, all seems to hint this may have been part of her angst, etc. Add that to the face this is what was expected of young women and certainly by her age, to marry, or they were judged or wondered about, and families had to explain it, and I really do NOT think you are overthinking it. There seems to be a LOT to point this way. Adding all that up. I'm not sure what that means as far as what she did or where she ended up or as to what happened but it is as significant or even more so than anything here since a lot points towards such.

Of course, again, I don't know as much as you do even now by a long shot. So the book and chocolates info must have come from shops and someone selling such to her? Because they wouldn't have found them or her s that must be how it is known she bought such...?
 
Dorothy used her family accounts that had been set up at the stores to pay for the items she bought. "Yes, please just put the cost on my family's account and my father will pay the bill at the end of the month as usual. Thank you so much." type of thing.
Brentano's book store, and SomebodyName Chocolates and Candy.

Yes, Lizzie had an older sister named Emma. Emma never married, and Lizzie never married. There was an age difference of about 10 years between them. The Borden case also intrigues me. I don't have a lot of interest in life past 1960. My favorite time periods are 1870-1930, with an emphasis on 1880-1925. But I do follow and also am interested in a 1950 UID case.
 
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Dorothy used her family accounts that had been set up at the stores to pay for the items she bought. "Yes, please just put the cost on my family's account and my father will pay the bill at the end of the month as usual. Thank you so much." type of thing.
Brentano's book store, and SomebodyName Chocolates and Candy.

Yes, Lizzie had an older sister named Emma. Emma never married, and Lizzie never married. There was an age difference of about 10 years between them. The Borden case also intrigues me. I don't have a lot of interest in life past 1960. My favorite time periods are 1870-1930, with an emphasis on 1880-1925. But I do follow and also am interested in a 1950 UID case.
Interesting.

I figured you meant Lizzie Borden. It's one name that doesn't need a last name to kind of figure, right...? I mean we all know the chant but not so many years ago I was a lot more on it, probably at the old site here or maybe at JT or who knows, maybe some documentary but I think at a site and learned more than I'd ever known, but of course don't recall it all.

I can understand why those years intrigue you and even though I'm more into current stuff, mainly because I want to see justice and there's more news on it and activity, I do end up in some like these that are pretty interesting and even a few that did not have quite the 'mystique", were't prominent people, etc.

You definitely should write period pieces and on some of these things because you are very well versed on the times, far better than I which is why I keep asking. I can relate or feel things would be certain ways just by thinking of things my grandpa told us and more of the times, and of course just life and reading, but I wouldn't say I was well versed on exactly when this or that came about or NYC, and how it was and so forth.

So this seems to confirm what I thought odd and have mentioned a few times. She was saying just put it on my dad's account BUT allegedly was carrying cash for a dress. I've said more than once, why would they do that and not just put it on account...? All dressed up and carrying a lot of money seems well, not a wise thing to do as a parent... I am talking as a parent there too. Seriously. I can expand on that if wanted.

I'll hold this to one question so as not to overwhelm, but what is the pawning story of things she owned? When and why, etc. and how learned? I only learned that from you or missed it.

And again, to me, it seems the fact she had how much money on her can only be said by a parent or known so I'm not counting it as fact necessarily... How else would anyone have ever heard or know this?
 
When she went for her one week tryst with 40 year old boyfriend, she pawned some of her jewelry to pay for her hotel room.
Maybe I read that or else I thought that might be when it was. Sorry if I did and did not recall. I too have little time and a new case, often fast read stuff and swear I'm not going to go into a new one. Or maybe it was just a guess unless you said that before, then I forgot or missed it.

SOOOO that says a lot about the 40 year old bf in that I do know you said he still lived with his parents, assuming or guessing he wouldn't marry her but only said so after she was missing, but he couldn't even PAY for her hotel room...? I do recall thinking this and so I probably did read something here since I first came in about such, I just did not recall the pawning or more detail on it.

Regardless. I'm not trying to offend Dorothy with the following remarks and believe me, I've never I guess chose men right in my life, but it shows she did not pick well. And like I told you earlier today, I read a lot of pages of that book linked and that is the kind of story it was about someone else and not realizing Dyson I believe was playing her, etc. and would never marry her and so on.

Add to it that Dorothy would have the societal pressure and parents' pressure...

George was it? Is sounding like a total loser to me.

And she does sound a bit like a rebel against rules and strictness.

And as I also said earlier for me, dad is becoming a bit front and center. Not that I mean he killed her or anything, but that I mean in Maybe knowing or controlling a situation, or something on that order.

So she had cash for a dress but charged other things that day.

I mean if no one has solved this in over 100 years in LE, we certainly aren't going to but with what you've told me that you know of things, I am getting some leanings. And LE probably had them too. Perhaps.

The thing is here they never even had a body so no new tech or science and being able to do DNA on hair or more minute things is not going to today result in anything. No cell phone. Etc. Everyone who would even have seen anything or stayed quiet would be long dead--or knew anything.

If you did write about this, would you do it as part fiction but part fact? And either way how would you end it, would you leave it with all the possibilities of what happened or would you make it otal fiction and choose the ending you think happened or would make a better ending?

I am going to repeat that I want a SIGNED copy. I am willing to pay for the book but don't have thousands to pay for the signature before you are famous. :) I WILL promote it though every chance I get.
 
I am leaning towards that by about 1920, her father knew what had happened and why, but it would be very socially damaging and embarrassing to the family, whatever it was.
 
I am leaning towards that by about 1920, her father knew what had happened and why, but it would be very socially damaging and embarrassing to the family, whatever it was.
You've kind of said that and I can see why you think so. Just for me, not knowing as much other than what you've so nicely filled me in on, their stature and influence and the fact a sister was married to a judge of SCOTUS, would make me think all hands would be on deck to find out what happened to her and at some point yes, they probably learned such. Probably the same influence would keep it quiet perhaps. Which really is so very wrong but it does go on in this world to this day.

It makes the cops look inept honestly, creates questions and doubts in the public and more for covering up for people in high places. I do think though it is very likely they did come to find out and can see already why you think that. The will for one that you talked of.

I know for me, and the type of person I am, I'd have a real problem being in a family like this sounds with such worry about appearances and status and I'd have went against such I have little doubt, even though I was a pleaser and wanted to please my parents, with this kind of strictness beyond what I had, which was enough, and by the age of 25, and not being on my own, oh my I'd never have lasted.

I am and always have been just a hater of fake and pretension. I hate mind games and people playing people too. I think why can't everyone just be real.

As we have talked of this, I have started to keep coming back to dad and her just wanting to have a life.

Maybe i'd do the same with mom but she has rarely come up in what I've seen and we've discussed so far. Maybe mom in fact would help her get to her sister's in Canada? Being she lived with the same control and understood it? Is that far fetched and is that why you lean towards that at times? I mean her going to Canada.

Even though this was back in the day and investigation techniques and sciences would not have been near what they are today with security cams, DNA and more, with their status and even a relative married to a SCOTUS judge, it would have been imo all hands on deck to find out what happened to her IF the parents wanted it known or to be found out and IF it was found out, it would be silenced if not a good thing for their status.... Am I kind of seeing that right?
 
She could blend in in Canada- not as recognized as she would be on the East Coast.
I wouldn't disagree with that at all. Were they so prominent and well know and important that people would have recognized her easily up and down the east coast? I get the family had some major social standing but haven't developed a clear picture of how much and newspapers etc. it was a lot different as to how far such was seen or spread.

What I mean I guess is dad was big time etc. but where his children in the NYT or whatever it would have been in the social pages of top society a lot and pictured? And were they and their children known up and down the east coast?

I guess what I am trying to say or wonder is before she went missing when at that point it probably hit the news big time is would she have been that known or recognized from say society pages or some such?

This is a nice distraction from current crimes. I don't mean it isn't as serious just that it is so old that we know anyone involved is long gone as she is and her parents are. It doesn't have the immediate feel as if time is of the essence which it would have had though back when.
 
She apparently was very familiar, and recognizable to New Yorkers.
Thank you for the info. So well known and recognized the family probably or her at least and all in NY.

Then it would seem significant if I have it right that here were no sightings after buying the chocolates and the book?

Never shopped for a dress, never was seen in Central Park or at the train station, etc.?

it isn't one I have followed for a length of time and new to me so forgive me if I have that wrong. I think though I have it right?
 
Thank you for the info. So well known and recognized the family probably or her at least and all in NY.

Then it would seem significant if I have it right that here were no sightings after buying the chocolates and the book?

Never shopped for a dress, never was seen in Central Park or at the train station, etc.?

it isn't one I have followed for a length of time and new to me so forgive me if I have that wrong. I think though I have it right?
Never seen again. Like she vanished into the air after she said goodbye to one of her friends that she saw on the street after buying the book and chocolates. Dorothy told her friend she (Dorothy) was going to take a shortcut through Central Park.
 
Never seen again. Like she vanished into the air after she said goodbye to one of her friends that she saw on the street after buying the book and chocolates. Dorothy told her friend she (Dorothy) was going to take a shortcut through Central Park.
So the shortcut would lead to the dress shop or lunch place or no?

I was under their impression she wanted to go to the park to walk or sit or some such but not sure why I thought that.

I can I guess why her father would think something happened to her there and I've had similar thoughts. If she is so well known/the family is, and there was no further sighting, no dress purchased, etc. then it would be as likely as anything. One would think others of prestige would recognize her on 5th Avenue, the shops area. IF that's where she was headed with the shortcut?

Since she was to meet mom for lunch and did not, I assume this was all in the morning. I just looked it up to see and December 12, 1910 was a Monday. I'm not saying that means a darned thing but I was simply wondering if it was a weekend day, etc. Nothing would have been opened Sundays though back then. Nothing was where I lived even in far later years back when. NY shops may have been different but I somehow doubt it. It just was how things were. You observed Sunday, church and family day.

So a friend saw her and it is known she bought chocolates and a book and so she was alive that day and the story of shopping was true at least to that point... A male or female friend, do you know?

I was thinking the entire story could have been false but apparently that's out.

So then I wonder if she bought a book and chocolates where she was but then needed to head through Central Park for the dress or lunch that the book and chocolate shop/s were not on 5th Avenue unless Central Park somehow lies in the midst of it. Not familiar at all with it. May look it up one day. I'm not even sure I knew such was around that far back lol. Maybe I did, from novels, can't recall.

Or does the shortcut lead somewhere else entirely? Did she tell the friend she was going to lunch and shopping still...? Would the shortcut take her near the train station?

Also if the friend was a male, he'd be on my suspect list...

If she just kind of vanished with no more sightings, I'm also leaning to Central Park since she was probably so recognizable.

I just googled and found that the decade of 1910 to 1919 as revolutionary for the car industry. There were about 500,000 cars operating in America. I'm going to guess there were still horses iand carriages in those early days. I tried to Google for that specifically for 1910 but long day and didn't come up with it specifically but ran into this article. Even though a lot of it is about horse manure, lol, it is still pretty interesting, very, imo and there are some good photos in it of 5th Avenue and more. It's not real long and it's big print.


The reason I am wondering about cars and carriages, etc. is how she could have disappeared and not be seen. I imagine they searched the park well I'd think and no body. And if one was every there, it would have been found in time. So that would seem to be out. I'm also going to guess no cars in the park allowed probably at that time and perhaps never. I am pretty sure though they did go for horse and carriage rides in the park if I recall novels the likes of which I haven't read for decades correctly. And that is IF she made it to the park and the shortcut. Was she close to there when she saw the friend I wonder.

I do NOT want you looking but am asking if a newspaper ever did a map showing her stops and where she saw the friend, the park, the shortcut, etc. and last sighting by the friend, and so forth. Even where the train station was...

You know if she was cutting through the park to go to the dress shop, that would mean something because it would seem to show she had no intent of disappearing and was going to continue her plans. That's why I'd like to know where she was taking the shortcut TO. Of course she could have lied to the friend.

I'm also starting to rule out some criminal in the park if he had no carriage or car because again her body would have been found I'd think. And that would bring me back to meeting a man and going off with him. Or as youi lean towards, taking a train but you'd THINK SOMEONE would remember her if she did that.

If the friend was a male and knew she was going to walk along through the park, even if they were seen parting, he could have then followed her but that doesn't seem likely either as again, there's have to be a mode of transport to take her out of the park...

Then there is the abortion thing. But would you dress like that to go to something like that...Another question (and don't feel you have to answer them all) is was she having a dress made or buying one 'off rack"? I have no idea what 5th AVenue was like in that year, etc. She may have put on a certain dress because she wanted the same fit or liked something about it to let a dressmaker size it from that dress or even copy something on it, etc.

I guess I'm looking to determine if she had every intention that day of doing what was planned, stated, lunching with mom and going home. if she did, then foul play occurred somewhere along the way imo.

How would you even meet up with a man you know in that day and age. I gather there were telephones but heck we had a party line yet in the 60s and the only phone was probably in their home, I assume they had one but who knows if any man she was interested in did. Perhaps but you'd really have to take care to not get caught out. I remember our neighbors listening in, it was a popular pastime I'd even go so far as to say especially for nosy and gossipy types. The operators as well lol. Just watch some Andy Griffith, far later than 1910 lol.

So I'd think you'd almost have to plan your meeting spot on some regular basis. Say every Monday morning in the park? And then make plans from there for your next time or just keep a weekly meeting time, etc... No cell phones, no texting, no emails... I'd imagine even pulling off the week with George had to be difficult.

I set out to do just a short response but the case intrigues me and I didn't even realize until talking it out that I think a few thoughts I had can likely be ruled out, most likely anyhow.

We know she was secretive in like the hidden week with George, we know pregnancy is a GOOD possibility. And THAT is another thing if she was to get fitted at a dressmaker, I mean we all know you don't show too much early on but it may have been something she wouldn't have wanted in the event it was a regular dress maker or fitter who knew her measurements. Can't have scandal for the family after all. It may sound dumb but could this be part of it? She knew she needed a dress for her sister's Deb ball and she couldn't miss it... If the dress was being made, she'd know she wouldn't fit it later on... When was the ball to occur? Shortly after the shopping or much later...? I also thought it maybe just a perhaps unusual she didn't go shopping with her mom or sister and I still find her being out and about alone someone unsafe or odd for that time period but perhaps the area she was in was considered safe, I don't know, and not so unusual. I think it is though.

This would also come back to abortion or leaving with someone or going to someone, like the aunt.

The thing is George would have likely been the one responsible for the pregnancy and you'd think she'd turn to him to help pay/help her out... And perhaps that's part of his statement that he'd marry her, as he knew she was PG and still refused to...

I need to stop but like I said, thoughts kind of rolling a bit now.

One last thing is the reading material she picked IS pretty interesting. You'd think you'd read it first though and then make your plan but who knows...Was she carrying another single solitary thing with her other than chocolates, the book, and probably a purse of some type...?

You know in 1910, she isn't going to be able to like apply for a job via internet, text someone she knows in say California (if anyone) and ask to stay with them, and so on. Or email. Etc. And calling long distance man was expensive even decades later and not even sure what the capability was then. Or France. Or New Orleans. She'd need help or this was a coverup by family as well...

Pregnancy seems to come in number one to me. In that day and age if some young unmarried girl went off and a story was given, it was often the case or the man married her and they hid the date of birth, etc.

They'd hate me sharing this as their kids did not even know until they died, but my grandparents were well thought of all their life, very well thought of. When my grandpa died, the oldest son in their things found out his birthdate was incorrect, what he had always believed to be his birthdate. I'm unsure what they came across, I was a child so my uncle and all of us were there, my aunts, uncles, my parents, my cousins over at my aunt's house and they were going through some of his things and letting people take mementos and such. They'd hid this their entire LIVES right up to his end, she died younger, he was in his 90s. And he was born in 1894. I don't know their marriage date but that's besides the point.

Then, and I don't recall how this was found out, when or know for sure, it came out at some point that he had a son by another woman who he did not marry, before my grandma. All in the same little rural area and small nearest town. I mean when I first heard this the grown son would have been in his 40s or 50s probably, again don't recall.

She married someone else and I don't recall this either but I am guessing that accepted the kid and hid it as their own or maybe she was shamed and then married, I have no idea what happened on that end. Someone in my family probably does.

I haven't quit have I? SOOOO I guess my point is people as we know sure covered such, it was shameful and this here was a very prominent family. And if George refused to marry her, IF she was pregnant, clearly my grandpa didn't do that with the one woman, and don't think bad of him, they were SUCH good people their entire lives, and thought very well of, then their options are hard. And this was before that time by a long number of years. Her choices would have been to turn to a man who would accept the child, have an abortion, go to a home for unmarried mothers, etc. with a cover story, go to her aunts, the aunt even to raise it as her own or something on this order. This family sounds to me as a type that wouldn't even do a cover story like she moved or is on vacation in France or something because imo people knew what this often meant even if that game is played and they wanted no one knowing, that is IF they even knew. Or she could feel like she'd cause them such scandal if they knew. They also very well could have helped her...Get to her aunt's etc. Either/or Knew or did not know.

And preferred her to be though of as just gone missing. But that doesn't seem likely because even that's unwanted attention really.

Here's the other thing about that first unknown son of my grandpa, people did know. We didn't, I don't believe any of my aunts and uncles, many, big family my grandparents had, etc. but some did in the area. Way way years later, my BIL's mom said oh you didn't know that kind of thing, she had known, to my sister I believe. Of course by then these things weren't so shocking as they had used to be. My grandparents though would be morified had they thought anyone knew or told.

I say that to say that I do think it POSSIBLE her family wouldn't have just wanted some cover story and to send her off because people still usually knew or could guess BUT then that's all they needed to. No scandal, they married and lied about pregnancies and things like that and everyone just whispered about it.

Even though long, I was point on all about Dorothy in this post but am sidetracking a bit now. I should be in bed. I never learn lol. I was so tired at work today I should have went early tonight. to bed.

I hope something somewhere I said gives you some thoughts or stirs some.

I think my sum up to all of that is pregnancy was absolutely the biggest reason a woman went missing in those days but generally it was with a cover story. But this COULD still be one...They made sure she was seen that day and then whisked her off...

But now I'm repeating myself but more unlikely maybe the family knew nothing...

Just because I've had this thought throughout but don't think I said it, I'll add one more. She clearly as we know lied to cover like a week with George. Seems maybe a bit adventurous? I'm just thinking that this was a Monday and so a pretty educated guess would be she stayed at home all day Sunday with the family, Sunday dinner, probably church as far as going out. And maybe by Monday morning, needed a plan and way to get out of the house and was a bit stir crazy and it's winter who doesn't get that way although at my age I prefer to go nowhere, at that age, it would be different. I mean you are 25, have a bf or did, and can't be with him every moment and are living with your parents...

I'm leaning a bit more your way, not sure as to what scenario but if she saw a friend, was headed to go through Central Park and never seen again, I'm thinking she met up with someone and left with them... She never made it to another shop or they'd know her, recall her, have a charge on her dad's account from her, etc...

Thinking about cars and carriages led me to likely no foul play in Central Park by a stranger anyhow. You aren't going to haul a body into your car the way they were then and I don't think they were allowed in the park or your carriage and drive to the Hudson River or something and dump a body. I just can't picture that. They were slow, roads weren't the same, I doubt people were even doing many like out of state or cross country trips in cars to dump elsewhere. So that thought which I had at first, a stranger attacking and murdering her in the park, just seems unlikely. And no body ever found there.

I've went on too long but thanks to you am getting some more info I didn't know and starting to see a bit more and rule some thoughts I had most likely out. I even see how in frustration her dad went to she was in the water at Central Park (even though frozen I guess) because what it is sounding like is that is where she was last headed, last seen and then vanished.
 
I've been intrigued by Dorothy's case for years. What do others think happened to her?
I've spent the morning reading about this case, indeed, it's an ntriguing case.
I don't think she was murdered; I'd sooner think she'd assumed a new identity, although I'd doubt that, too.
Now, where she'd go is beyond my imagination.
Re the letter she'd written, what, precisely, did she say her mother would think was an accident?
 
I've spent the morning reading about this case, indeed, it's an ntriguing case.
I don't think she was murdered; I'd sooner think she'd assumed a new identity, although I'd doubt that, too.
Now, where she'd go is beyond my imagination.
Re the letter she'd written, what, precisely, did she say her mother would think was an accident?
That is the mystery. Nobody knows what she was referring to when she said her mother would think it was an accident. Personally, I think she got on a train, went somewhere else by train or boat, and started a new life under a different name. Mother would think she had an accident. Either Canada or out west or Europe. No way would she stay in the NYC area- her face was too well known there.

Because her father by 1922, that he was satisfied that she was dead and did not leave her anything in his will, I believe the family knew what happened and it was so socially damaging that they would never tell or b) she died in the 1917-1919 period during the flu pandemic.

What intrigues me is that thick packet of papers that was delivered to her by the USPS, on a Sunday. Delivered to her by messenger at a college friend's house in Washington DC, where she was going to be spending Thanksgiving weekend. Dorothy had decided on the spur of the moment, with just a few days notice, to visit her friend. So no one except her family and her friend knew where she was.
The day after she got the packet, she came downstairs at her friend's house and said she was leaving. When she got back to NY, Dorothy 's mother was also shocked to see her return so suddenly- she was supposed to have been gone for almost a week but didn't.
 
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That is the mystery. Nobody knows what she was referring to when she said her mother would think it was an accident. Personally, I think she got on a train, went somewhere else by train or boat, and started a new life under a different name. Mother would think she had an accident. Either Canada or out west or Europe. No way would she stay in the NYC area- her face was too well known there.

Because her father by 1922, that he was satisfied that she was dead and did not leave her anything in his will, I believe the family knew what happened and it was so socially damaging that they would never tell or b) she died in the 1917-1919 period during the flu pandemic.

What intrigues me is that thick packet of papers that was delivered to her by the USPS, on a Sunday. Delivered to her by messenger at a college friend's house in Washington DC, where she was going to be spending Thanksgiving weekend. Dorothy had decided on the spur of the moment, with just a few days notice, to visit her friend. So no one except her family and her friend knew where she was.
The day after she got the packet, she came downstairs at her friend's house and said she was leaving. When she got back to NY, Dorothy 's mother was also shocked to see her return so suddenly- she was supposed to have been gone for almost a week but didn't.
Not sure why this info is unfamiliar to me but I never get time to read all links or research.

She wrote a letter? And traveled and received a thick packet of papers elsewhere? Either my memory is really bad or I missed that.

One thing I do agree with is it does seem her family was more than concerned over their image and standing. I also think because of who they were LE would have went all out to find her using all they could at the time UNLESS the family did not want that or if the answers were damaging to them, such would not come out perhaps.

Why come back home once getting away to DC?

I still think an unplanned pregnancy is a very real possibility here. What was done from there though is anyone's guess.

If a chance, what is deal about a letter and a packet of papers, if and when you have time?

So she had things sent elsewhere?

Haven't been in here in a bit as I did not want to keep drowning you with my endless questions but still interested, and think of it often.
 
Not sure why this info is unfamiliar to me but I never get time to read all links or research.

She wrote a letter? And traveled and received a thick packet of papers elsewhere? Either my memory is really bad or I missed that.

One thing I do agree with is it does seem her family was more than concerned over their image and standing. I also think because of who they were LE would have went all out to find her using all they could at the time UNLESS the family did not want that or if the answers were damaging to them, such would not come out perhaps.

Why come back home once getting away to DC?

I still think an unplanned pregnancy is a very real possibility here. What was done from there though is anyone's guess.

If a chance, what is deal about a letter and a packet of papers, if and when you have time?

So she had things sent elsewhere?

Haven't been in here in a bit as I did not want to keep drowning you with my endless questions but still interested, and think of it often.
The friend said it was a thick envelope with papers. She didn't ask Dorothy what it was, she thought it might be rude to ask.Dorothy didn't volunteer any info about it either. Then she leaves a day later. Her friend was a school teacher in Washington DC.
 

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