On December 12, 1910, Arnold left to go shopping for a dress and was seen by a cashier as well as a friend on Fifth Avenue. She told the friend that she had planned to walk through Central Park before returning home. That evening, when Arnold failed to return home for dinner, her family grew suspicious.
On December 12, 1910, Arnold left to go shopping for a dress and was seen by as a friend on Fifth Avenue. She told the friend that she had planned to walk through Central Park before returning home. That evening, when Arnold failed to return home...
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Because of the birth date,
and death date that was before 1919. Plus the name was a variation of Dorothy's names. Too many coincidences, if there are coincidences.
Because of the birth date,
and death date that was before 1919. Plus the name was a variation of Dorothy's names. Too many coincidences, if there are coincidences.
Ok keep us updated and send us links, photos, news etc. Out of curiosity: how did you end up in that cemetery? Did you do research for her, or did you go to visit the grave of some of your relatives, loved ones?
I keep coming back to CA because of someone I found in a CA cemetery. IF it is her. Still trying to research it a little bit more.
Remember the Spanish flu pandemic that started in 1917 and was full blown worldwide in 1918. Deaths continued for another year or two beyond that. Certain parts of the U.S. were hit harder than others and northern CA was extremely hard hit with deaths from Spanish flu.
If she did walk away, I don't think she stayed on the East Coast. Too much chance of being recognized.
Her father was in the import/export business and did quite well, he became very successful. He was one of the senior partners, in other words a top upper echelon executive.One of the products his company handled was perfumes from around the world, although there were other products. That is why the press at the time seized on "Perfume heiress" to describe her disappearance.
Interesting, curious how you come on someone in a cemetery that could be her, meaning if she was not using the same name, etc. how would one even do that much less as to knowing where and so forth and date and so on?
Makes sense if high society and IF she walked away that she wouldn't stay east coast/same general area.
Import/export, interesting. Had he come from high society before that/money? Or mom either? What's the heritage? I mean like all of us some relative had to have come to America in some year. Same with the mother. Not that it plays in, just curious.
So you are thinking she may have died young from the Spanish flu?
Dorothy had an older brother, who was 27 when she disappeared. She had 2 younger siblings, a sister and a brother. Her sister was born in August,1891. Sister would have been 19 at the time of the Deb ball.
Thank you. So a six year or close gap between her and the sister. May get closer once getting older but I wouldn't think necessarily sharing adult type confidences at that time. Most likely anyhow, just a guess, I mean sister hadn't "debuted' yet even.
Just trying to get a grasp on the family dynamic. And so there's a brother and sister older and a brother and sister younger, not be tons of years but enough that they'd have been doing different things and in different periods of llfe in at least their childhood or young adult years. And the one closest in age is a male.
Is that or is that not a little old to have a deb ball?
The intriguing thing is that about 6 months after she disappeared, a close friend of the Arnold family was on a business trip to Mobile, AL. The friend had known Dorothy since she was a small child and was very familiar with her. He was in a department store in Alabama and recognized her as a fellow shopper. He greeted her by name, she apparently smiled at him and moved away. He noticed she was with a young man he did not recognize at all, and he said Dorothy was wearing a small gold ring on her finger.
Soooo...3 options.
1) it was her
2) he was mistaken and the woman was too polite to tell him that
3) the young woman physically resembled Dorothy and was tired of being mistaken for her and just played along.
Another possibility is it is false. Not saying it is but look at today, and back then this too was a sensational case in the sense she was a 'perfume heiress" and people probably glommed onto it and getting some attention by claiming to see her wouldn't be totally out of character for some types of people, they do it now and they probably did it then as well.
I find it just a bit odd if a close family friend that he'd first, I'd think know she was missing and the family one would think desperately wanted to find her so why would you let her go, and not say hey, can we talk a minute, etc. The alternative was it was brief and he had no chance and yet if so brief he still noticed a ring and the young man? The young man perhaps is hard to miss but the ring...?
False sightings cause a lot of damage in cases, whether good intentioned (thought for real they saw the person) or intentional.
So first it has to be a good family friend. Second they have to be in a store in Mobile and third, she just happens to be there too and be seen totally out of either one's area would be my guess and then he also happens to see she's with a young man and has a ring on. I find it a bit out there. Could it have been said to help the family not worry as much or help them still any stigma of it all by showing she was married and this would make it a bit romantic and less stigmatizing than people thinking she had an abortion or some such.
Like I said I'm a bit cynical and it seems a bit unlikely to me. OR there's more to it. Jmo though. Meaning he was related to her disappearance and was with her and they were in Mobile, he was helping the family out with this sighting to quell other talk and send it in another direction, etc.
I guess I just find it unlikely. Both of them in Mobile of all places and I'm assuming he was a New Yorker too if a close family friend...? He was on business, did he work with her father? That would lead me back to the family knowing or being a part of helping her go elsewhere or knew who she was with (him? his son?) or something on that order. I just find it unlikely unless there's more to it than that.
It could be also entirely false and who could prove otherwise? And just for attention, etc.
Ok keep us updated and send us links, photos, news etc. Out of curiosity: how did you end up in that cemetery? Did you do research for her, or did you go to visit the grave of some of your relatives, loved ones?
Just random. I was playing around with Dorothy's names and birth date and it popped up. I have long believed she bought those chocolates and book because she planned to catch a train to Somewhere Else. Wherever Somewhere Else was.
The $25.00-35.00 she carried with her would have been more than enough for a train ticket, plus some new clothes. If someone (ie new BF, not the 40 year old) was waiting for her at Somewhere Else, he, or one of his female relatives, could have purchased some new clothes/new outfit for her. All she needed to do was write a letter to that person and include her dress size or measurements and some money. She could buy other items with the money she took with her.
We know she had pawned some of her jewelry months before. If she went to a warmer climate, she could have pawned that expensive fur muff as well in a large city. She wouldn't need it in a warm state with little or no winter. She also could have pawned the lapis lazuli earrings she was wearing. She had a 6 week head start on the public finding out she was missing.
It was right before Christmas. Someone shopping or browsing in a pawn shop would have been delighted to find such a nice Christmas gift like a real fur muff to give as a gift to their wife, daughter, or fiancee.
Her entire outfit was the height of style and seems very dressy, even for a society woman doing shopping.. A little too dressy for a day of supposedly shopping and lunch. When I first read the description of her earrings, dress, designer hat with the drippy lace around the brim, fur muff, etc. my first thought was that it sounded more like an outfit to get married in/elope in. But that is just MOO.
Thank you. So a six year or close gap between her and the sister. May get closer once getting older but I wouldn't think necessarily sharing adult type confidences at that time. Most likely anyhow, just a guess, I mean sister hadn't "debuted' yet even.
Just trying to get a grasp on the family dynamic. And so there's a brother and sister older and a brother and sister younger, not be tons of years but enough that they'd have been doing different things and in different periods of llfe in at least their childhood or young adult years. And the one closest in age is a male.
Is that or is that not a little old to have a deb ball?
No there were 4 kids.
27 year old brother born 1884
Dorothy born 1885
Younger brother born 1888
Younger sister who was making her debut. Born 1891
Dorothy's father's sister was married to the SCOTUS judge.
Dorothy's mother was Canadian and mom's family was also well off and known in Quebec society. Dorothy spoke French. She could easily have blended into Quebec under a different name.
Just random. I was playing around with Dorothy's names and birth date and it popped up. I have long believed she bought those chocolates and book because she planned to catch a train to Somewhere Else. Wherever Somewhere Else was.
The $25.00-35.00 she carried with her would have been more than enough for a train ticket, plus some new clothes. If someone (ie new BF, not the 40 year old) was waiting for her at Somewhere Else, he, or one of his female relatives, could have purchased some new clothes/new outfit for her. All she needed to do was write a letter to that person and include her dress size or measurements and some money. She could buy other items with the money she took with her.
We know she had pawned some of her jewelry months before. If she went to a warmer climate, she could have pawned that expensive fur muff as well in a large city. She wouldn't need it in a warm state with little or no winter. She also could have pawned the lapis lazuli earrings she was wearing. She had a 6 week head start on the public finding out she was missing.
It was right before Christmas. Someone shopping or browsing in a pawn shop would have been delighted to find such a nice Christmas gift like a real fur muff to give as a gift to their wife, daughter, or fiancee.
Her entire outfit was the height of style and seems very dressy, even for a society woman doing shopping.. A little too dressy for a day of supposedly shopping and lunch. When I first read the description of her earrings, dress, designer hat with the drippy lace around the brim, fur muff, etc. my first thought was that it sounded more like an outfit to get married in/elope in. But that is just MOO.
Good points. I keep forgetting about the book and chocolates, however, when I did think of them and read that, I thought they also could have been a gift for one, as you say it was nearing Christmas and also could have been for her plan to go to Central Park but then December wouldn't be a time to really sit on a bench and read a book in NYC I guess.
Have you ever looked up the historical weather in that area for that day?
I did not know about the pawning. Why had she done that? Another abortion? I'm not saying there was one but am wondering about the pawning of her things, making a nest egg/get away fund.
If she was eloping, she wouldn't need more clothing, etc. if already with a man who was going to o provide or so she thought perhaps anyhow.
The book and chocolates would fit a train ride for sure. Would also make for a nice gift as I said.
What is an over the top outfit for a day like that, in society and a plan to lunch at the Waldorf? Perhaps she liked the style and wanted to show sales clerks when shopping for a dress the kind of lines she liked. So much of this can be thought of in all directions.
I will say this it wouldn't be the outfit one would wear to go to some speedy backstreet abortion, you'd stand out as very out of place imo.
I wouldn't know the way she normally dressed though.
I still could see her parents knowing or no knowing or one of them. Or her doing this without their knowledge. Whatever "this" was.
Interesting how you took different name variations searching. Interested in hearing more on that. It does seem you may be right on your thoughts you know a whole lot more about the case than I do. Pawning things...
No there were 4 kids.
27 year old brother born 1884
Dorothy born 1885
Younger brother born 1888
Younger sister who was making her debut. Born 1891
Dorothy's father's sister was married to the SCOTUS judge.
Dorothy's mother was Canadian and mom's family was also well off and known in Quebec society. Dorothy spoke French. She could easily have blended into Quebec under a different name.
I mean four kids. Meaning Dorothy as the one sister older set, I should have said that better. Meaning her and her brother, older, not that she had another sister. I meant she IS that sister in that set. Not that there's another.
Interesting family history. So even though society, he didn't marry into our society but someone from Canadian high society. Probably not all that big of a deal but didn't stay in the ring of NY society. Yes she'd have likely fit in (Dorothy) as you say in Quebec or New Orleans although I'd guess she didn't carry the accent but maybe she did if her mother had it, etc.
Dad's sis married to a SCOTUS judge. I guess the family likely had some influence then. If they wanted her found, I'd think no stone would have been left unturned. Or would they worry about what would be found out? And influence the other way, and to secrecy, etc. in any findings/ I mean I only say this as you've said a few times of the concern over status and appearance. So if she died scandalously (abortion) or say ran off with some loser or married man or ended up on the streets, and the investigation found such, would they WANT it known... So imo that's a thought...
That seems on the warm side for winter or at least it would be here not sure about NY though. Even so, I'd not want to be walking in Central. Park In the winter in any weather honestly. Did they not have the weather from the 12th or is the date wrong in the thread title? I'm not expecting you to look that up, I'm wondering what the correct date she went missing is?
So it was warmish I guess but not melting temps. Warmish for winter.
Imo she'd be very vulnerable dressed as she was and standing out rich and a female alone. Her parents were okay with that idea, kind of hard to believe... I just don't get that plan at all unless planning to meet someone there and it would still be dangerous imo to that point and with him possibly too depending on how well she knew the person. Not saying that was the plan but just think that if so.
Are you saying the main pic of her here is how she was dressed that day? How is it you know that, just wondered?
Are there ANY accounts of her being seen that day by anyone anywhere that seem legit? Any shop, any street, etc.? I'd think she'd have stood out dressed up so and being a young woman alone...? And if she was seen somewhere like a train station or in a less desirable part of town, she 'd have REALLY stood out imo.
Oh, crap you are right. December 12 is correct. For some reason I was thinking she vanished on the 10th. I will look up the 12th weather report tomorrow. Sorry. I am so tired right now.
Oh, crap you are right. December 12 is correct. For some reason I was thinking she vanished on the 10th. I will look up the 12th weather report tomorrow. Sorry. I am so tired right now.
Don't worry about it, I wasn't asking for that, but just trying to get straight on the date, I thought I might have it wrong is all. I recall thinking actually that's the same day Alex Cox died and probably the reason I recalled it. Different year of course by more than a century of years but same date.
If I knew what site you used I can look or I can just Google but would like to compare from the same site for same dates.
You take it easy. This case is not going anywhere let's be honest if it hasn't been solved in more than 100 years. Lots of time to look at things.
If I get to it ill' take a look. If not, again, it certainly isn't that important, plenty of time, just something I wondered about any ONLY for the Central Park thing. Of course if it was below zero or a blizzard, it would make things a bit different too of her heading out that day and what could have happened and so on.
Don't worry about it, I wasn't asking for that, but just trying to get straight on the date, I thought I might have it wrong is all. I recall thinking actually that's the same day Alex Cox died and probably the reason I recalled it. Different year of course by more than a century of years but same date.
If I knew what site you used I can look or I can just Google but would like to compare from the same site for same dates.
You take it easy. This case is not going anywhere let's be honest if it hasn't been solved in more than 100 years. Lots of time to look at things.
If I get to it ill' take a look. If not, again, it certainly isn't that important, plenty of time, just something I wondered about any ONLY for the Central Park thing. Of course if it was below zero or a blizzard, it would make things a bit different too of her heading out that day and what could have happened and so on.
As you mentioned, no way was she sitting on a bench in Central Park reading a book that day. The Central Park lake or pond or reservoir or whatever it is, was frozen over. The police discredited Dorothy's father's belief that she had been killed in the park and her body dropped into the water due to it being frozen over.
I am not familiar with NYC at all. Wonder how far the train station was from Central Park. Dorothy apparently liked to go walking as her exercise and walked about 50 blocks to reach the stores from her home the day she disappeared.
An obscure situation.--The adorers of Anne.--In the face of reality.--A dreamer of dreams.--When all is fair.--Moonlight and roses.--Qualities of love
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The book was published in 1910, so iit would have been new at the time. It is a collection of short fiction stories about different women who were engaged to be married. It used to be also available on gutenberg.org, but it looks like gutenberg pulled it down for some reason. Blake wrote other books as well. Maybe I am overthinking, but was Dorothy trying to send a message by buying this book and then disappearing?
As you mentioned, no way was she sitting on a bench in Central Park reading a book that day. The Central Park lake or pond or reservoir or whatever it is, was frozen over. The police discredited Dorothy's father's belief that she had been killed in the park and her body dropped into the water due to it being frozen over.
I am not familiar with NYC at all. Wonder how far the train station was from Central Park. Dorothy apparently liked to go walking as her exercise and walked about 50 blocks to reach the stores from her home the day she disappeared.
I am not familiar with NYC at all either and then even if one was, back more than 100 years ago, it is gong to be entirely different and so is the landscape going to be and the population but it's always been I know this much a main hub in our nation, enter Ellis Island for instance where most of our ancestors entered through. It established ahead and first over many an area and we know just from novels and other things that it was a place that high society tended to live and as you said trade, importing, we know banking, at some point the stock exchange, etc.
Of course, nowadays i'd think of course the subway would be right at Central Park's door and about with a stop everywhere in NY but train stations, not as sure. But it wouldn't seem too unlikely Central Park wouldn't be far from one. It existed then clearly from this story and so was an early part of NYC and a big thing there. I've always had the impression it was in the main hub area, 5th Avenue, etc. through my lifetime anyhow but at some point of course as time went on what was a gorgeous and nice park for society to go to, ride through, etc. of course these days is going to attract another ilk. And in that day probably did to a point as well but crime wasn't like it is today. Just my guesses.
So she liked to walk and would walk 50 blocks to reach the stores and they let her. You know I guess I shouldn't be surprised I suppose. Times were different no matter where we lived and people trusted their areas and didn't hear of all we hear of today but still.
And I also don't know NYC but over the years of being an avid reader (I do little these days) my impression of Central Park is that it's huge for the average size of something in NYC where things are now squashed together and went up into high rises to fit more and more people. In my head if I recall it has ice skating in the winter, used to back in the day have pony rides, people took an outing in their carriage to drive Central Park, etc. did they not? Water, a fair amount of acres of grass and so on and lanes or paths.
And was there only one train station in those years... I would say it was close because it existed then, if only one. It was sure big ENOUGH then although probably not the size of today if her home in high society was 50 blocks from the shops on 5th Avenue. Of course you'd want to be in the nicer area probably established for the rich but not right on top of or next door to the shops.
It remains odd to me they would "let" her do this much less walk 50 blocks alone in that day and age. I tell myself it's probably far more dangerous today but they were society people. But maybe that alone left them feeling untouched or no one would be dumb enough to touch one of them. Heck you can get into the 60s and it was a thing for a woman to be out alone yet, taking a train alone or anything else. Not just for crime but because it just wasn't "done".
So I did not know this either, you are saying she DID walk that day? Where was she last seen that can be relied on if there's anything at all to be sure of that?
Also her dad thinking she was killed in the park and dumped in (I know what you mean what is it) a man made lake, reservoir, pond tells me that even back then they thought such risky and dangerous if that's where he believed something happened to her.
Here real lakes and such wouldn't be frozen to much depth if temps stayed from 25 and up or necessarily even safe to walk on and certainly not to drive on. And some areas will remain with open water but these are real lakes and currents, bridges, etc. Where I grew up one area is always risky where it goes under a bridge and myself i'd never trust it but some idiots do.
Interesting this is what her dad figured, imo. That tells me imo that they wouldn't have been in agreement with her going there alone and so I am asking did they know her plan to do so and just could not keep her from doing what she wanted or they found out afterwards it was part of her day's plan of shopping, a walk in the park, etc.?
When I first came in just days ago and skimmed the bit, it seemed to me they knew of her plans. I could be wrong.
Dad seems to come back in this short time, front and center a lot. I don't mean he did anything to her but I mean thinking she died in Central Park, declaring her dead in his will, worried about what society would think and you name it.
Saying he'd have let her date and even wished she'd do so more or see nice solid men more or however you put it, gives me an impression but you can feel that he means certain types, good types of course and so on.
I'm starting to get an impression and perhaps I'm wrong and I'm going on the very little bit here and things you've shared that he was a controlling type but when one has that, one often rebels at some point, and perhaps he couldn't keep Dorothy in line at 25 or even before and thought she'd be raised, married and so on. And SO worried about status and appearance. Money seems to play in here too and I don't mean in the way of course it mattered to someone of such society but I mean that Dorothy would have to pawn stuff. And so he's supporting a daughter as an adult who maybe cost a fair amount and was also taking risks and being wayward and that could risk their reputation and status, and he may be kept her or tried to on a tight leash as far as with spending money, not that he should be having to support her at 25 but back then well women didn't have the same options and you're not going to have your daughter seen if you are high society working teh streets or serving coffee at some dive of a diner, etc. Perhaps working at Saks or Macy's if they were around back then and even then people would likely talk that his daughter had to WORKKK??
With your help, since I know little, I'm refining thoughts. Again, I'm not saying dad did anything to her. I am thinking though that there was friction, and with the worry about appearance and being young, strictness or an attempt to be with money, and she likely made none of her own and the way out is a man. Or some form of income of your own, not so easy for her and at that time imo.
It's archaic but it's just true. In ALMOST all cases, you married, the woman was home with the kids and the man brought home the bacon so to speak and that's not even high society where you wouldn't be allowed to take some low level job and embarrass the family...
So dad sounds tight with the money and not necessarily wrongfully so. Maybe Dorothy cost a lot and it was the only way he had of her not gallivanting and spending a week with a lover, etc... And that would leave her if the money was not just given freely to some 25 year old doing her own thing needing money, hence the pawning, etc. The fact she would pawn things some family of their ilk would consider important and even go to pawn them, tells me she was somewhat rebellious and probably against the structures of "society" and her dad, etc.... If most of us are honest, every generation is a bit in these age ranges not in sync meaning from the time we are in our teens to early 20s and those are the years not by law but but nature we are looking to separate and find our own way while parents are trying to ensure that way is right, etc. Add in rules and you are 25 and make no money of your own... And no outs for women for centuries OTHER than a man to take dad's place... Seriously.
With knowing little, like I said, dad keeps playing back in here. Again, not that I necessarily think he did anything to her but of causing Dorothy to do or be, or to even sway things (attacked and dumped in Central Park). I still find the part she had the money on her interesting and in my head this can't be proven right? How could it be proven? Probably came from dad/or mom saying so. And then you said which I don't know the story of she had pawned things previously. That tells me dad didn't give her money or enough of it in her opinion to do her things. So why would he on this occasion? She also had played the parents if true lying and spending a week with George....
But on this day supposedly she had a lot of money, from dad supposedly right?
If I have anything wrong here, let me know AT your leisure. This case hasn't gone anywhere for over 100 years right. No rush.
I am getting to dialing in a little bit with the more info. Not saying figuring out or knowing, just a better feeling of the family dynamic, etc.
This is a brief thread and so I don't have the info you do. So I am guessing her pawning stuff previously comes from that you have followed and know the case and I take all you say as fact and know if speculation you pretty much show that but pawning is pretty much fact right?
An obscure situation.--The adorers of Anne.--In the face of reality.--A dreamer of dreams.--When all is fair.--Moonlight and roses.--Qualities of love
archive.org
The book was published in 1910, so iit would have been new at the time. It is a collection of short fiction stories about different women who were engaged to be married. It used to be also available on gutenberg.org, but it looks like gutenberg pulled it down for some reason. Blake wrote other books as well. Maybe I am overthinking, but was Dorothy trying to send a message by buying this book and then disappearing? View attachment 22591
Some of this is ringing bells. I am starting to think before the last site went down, and I've thought that before, as I said, that this case rings bells. I am thinking I was in this thread on the old site... A fair amount sounds familiar. Like her reading material here.
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