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University of Idaho Murders: State of Idaho vs. BK *GUILTY PLEA* (30 Viewers)

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Got my Masters degree from here. :(

Killer who stabbed 4 Idaho students to death still at large​

The killer — or killers — who stabbed four University of Idaho students to death remained at large Tuesday, prompting many students to leave the campus in the idyllic small town despite police assurances that there was no imminent risk to the community.

So many students had left the scenic tree-lined campus in Moscow, Idaho, by Tuesday that university officials said a candlelight vigil scheduled for the next day would instead be held after the Thanksgiving break.

The students, all close friends, were found dead in an off-campus rental home around noon on Sunday, and officials said they likely were killed several hours earlier. Latah County Coroner Cathy Mabbutt told the Spokane, Washington-based television station KXLY that her preliminary investigation showed the students were stabbed to death. There is no indication that substance use was involved in the deaths, Mabbutt said.
 
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I found this comment by Kim Kernodle interesting.



Of course the prosecution feels they have enough evidence to get a conviction. If they didn't they wouldn't have gone forward with this case. And having enough evidence to convict doesn't mean you will actually get a conviction. We've all seen that happen in the past.

I think the family members who oppose the plea deal don't have a good understanding of the criminal justice system and that is distorting this issue for them. And if they are being extremely confrontational with the prosecution that could explain why they are having problems with communications between the party's involved.

I don't know, more than one seems to have issues with the prosecutor/s.

I wonder if they feel they are being robbed of a trial or of their say? They will get their say at sentencing or should and the info should all come out at some point.

I agree a guilty verdict is not a guarantee even if the P said the case is strong enough to convict.

If they don't understand the legal system, honestly they have done a poor job of informing them of how it works.

I thought I understood the system pretty well and honestly I did with most of it but we still ran into things it was like WHAT? That had to be explained to us when we called upset, etc. We did always get it explained, but they sometimes assume as it is their daily job that all know.

It does sound like there is poor communication here, perhaps both ways.

Goncalvez said the minute the judge said the leak was going to be investigated then the P dropped the ball and wanted a deal. I'm not sure he is right about that. I mean the judge said it would be investigated no matter what.

They have a lawyer and that lawyer should also be helping them understand imo.
 

“When a court decides to accept or reject a plea agreement, it has to be done in the interest of justice,” she said. “It’s a victim’s right to have input in the prosecution, but also to make sure the court knows how they feel about a plea. The victims don’t have control over the outcome, but they can offer something that helps the court analyze whether the plea is in the interest of justice.”

It does not mean that victims or their families get the final say in how prosecutors try a case or whether they can offer or approve a plea agreement. There is no appeals process for victims or families who disagree with a prosecutor’s decision, but that doesn’t mean there isn’t recourse if a victim believes their rights have been violated.
 
The problem here is that I don't know even most judges would see this as a bad deal. He is getting all that he could get IF a conviction was secured and then the DP may still not be.
 
Is it feasible for him to plead guilty to the two murders where the victims accept the plea deal and then stand trial for the other two?

That could be the best of both worlds.
 

Steve Goncalves was stunned over the weekend when he heard that prosecutors in Moscow, Idaho, had reached a plea deal with Bryan Kohberger, the man charged in the 2022 stabbing deaths of his daughter, Kaylee, and three other University of Idaho students.
Just days earlier, Goncalves said he and a few of the victims’ loved ones told prosecutors they did not support a plea deal. Instead, they urged prosecutors to continue pursuing the death penalty in Kohberger’s upcoming quadruple murder trial, which Goncalves hoped would bring much-needed closure to their families.
“We don’t want to deal. We’re not interested in that. We didn’t wait two and a half years for this,” the father said he told prosecutors on a Friday afternoon call.
Goncalves said he walked away from the conversation with the impression that a plea deal was not a serious option in the case, leaving him blindsided when he received an email just two days later notifying him a deal had been reached.
Ultimately, it was Kohberger’s attorneys who broached the possibility of a plea deal as they endured a series of legal blows to their defense strategy, Goncalves told CNN’s Jim Sciutto, citing conversations with prosecutors last week.
The agreement would avoid a trial by allowing Kohberger to plead guilty to all four counts of murder in exchange for the government dropping the death penalty in the killings of Kaylee Goncalves, Ethan Chapin, Xana Kernodle and Madison Mogen, a person familiar with the matter told CNN.
Goncalves and his family have slammed the deal as “hurried” and “secretive,” saying prosecutors should have sought input from victims’ loved ones on the conditions of the deal. Jeff Kernodle, Xana’s father, also expressed disappointment in the prosecutor’s decision.
Kernodle mourned the deal as a “missed opportunity to set a stronger precedent in how accountability should be handled in cases like this,” he said in a statement Tuesday.
“It could have sent a message to others that these kinds of horrific crimes carry real consequences. Instead, four beautiful lives were taken, and the person responsible won’t be used as an example to help prevent something like this from happening again,” Kernodle added.
In contrast, families of the other two victims say they support the plea deal.
Ben Mogen, father of Madison, told the Idaho Statesman he was choosing acceptance, adding the plea agreement would let his family avoid a trial and allow its wounds to keep healing. Ethan’s mother, Stacy Chapin, told CNN affiliate KHQ her family would be in court Wednesday “in support of the plea bargain.”
But the deal is not set in stone, and the judge could require Kohberger to confess to details of the crime, a legal expert said.
State District Judge Steven Hippler must approve the deal and will oversee a hearing in the case at 11 a.m. Wednesday, during which the plea agreement will be addressed, a letter from the prosecutor to a victim’s family says, according to an Idaho Statesman report.

Closed-door plea negotiations shrouded in mystery​

Plea deal negotiations are often protected by a halo of privacy, so details of the closed-door conversations between prosecutors and Kohberger’s attorneys are unlikely to come out unless one side steps forward, according to University of Idaho associate law professor Samuel Newton.
Commonly discussed in the legal process, plea deals involve prosecutors offering a defendant incentives, such as a less severe sentence, if they accept a guilty plea, Newton said.
The costs and time commitment of a death penalty case may have also played a role in both sides wanting to reach an early conclusion, Newton said. Death penalty convictions often lead to decades of painstaking appeal efforts, which he said some victims’ families describe as “torture.”
“The family is looking at … decades of legal proceedings in a death penalty case, versus if he takes life without parole, it’s done and the family gets that degree of closure,” Newton said.
Kohberger’s legal defense team has also suffered a series of losses in recent weeks which have narrowed their strategy options, including rulings barring the defense from submitting an official alibi – as no one could confirm Kohberger’s whereabouts at the time of the killings – and rejecting their attempt to present an “alternate perpetrator” theory.
During Wednesday’s hearing, the judge is likely to question Kohberger thoroughly to make sure he understands that he would be forfeiting his right to a trial and sentencing appeals if he accepts the deal, Newton said.
Kaylee Goncalves, Ethan Chapin, Xana Kernodle and Madison Mogen were killed Sunday, November 13, 2022 off campus at the University of Idaho.

Kaylee Goncalves, Ethan Chapin, Xana Kernodle and Madison Mogen were killed Sunday, November 13, 2022 off campus at the University of Idaho.
Obtained by CNN

Families push for details of the killings​

Both Goncalves and Kernodle have criticized prosecutors for not including provisions in the plea deal that would require Kohberger to confess to specific details of the crime. Those details could have been revealed at trial, which still leaves questions over motive and how the stabbings were carried out.
Goncalves hopes Judge Hippler will require Kohberger to make statements in court that would shed light on the remaining mysteries of the case. He also believes such statements would provide the suspect’s supporters – many of whom maintain his innocence – less ground to stand on.
“We’re all going to live with the repercussion for the rest of our lives … unless Hippler steps in and says, ‘You’re not going to just say you’re guilty. You’re going to communicate some of the details so these families can actually move on and not have to be dragged through this true crime nightmare over and over and over again.”
Kernodle agreed, saying in his statement, “It’s incredibly hard to accept that a trial won’t be happening. I had hoped the agreement would include conditions that required the defendant to explain his actions and provide answers to the many questions that still remain, especially where evidence is missing or unclear.”
Goncalves also believes the plea deal should have barred Kohberger from reaping financial gain from selling the details of his story in the future.

Could Kohberger maintain his innocence?​

There is a slim chance Kohberger could maintain his innocence while accepting the plea deal by entering an Alford plea, an option that stems from a 1970 Supreme Court case.
“The benefit of the Alford plea is for a defendant who feels that they’re innocent but wants to take the deal,” Newton said, noting there are no substantial differences between a regular guilty plea and an Alford plea. “It has the same result as a guilty plea. It’s just the defendant themselves is not going to say that they did it.”
If the defense went this route, the state may present a factual basis for Kohberger’s guilty plea, including details of how the crime was carried out, and would require him to say “guilty” after the facts were read, Newton said. Like a regular guilty plea, Kohberger would likely be waiving his right to appeal as well, he added.
Newton said it seems unlikely prosecutors would have agreed to a plea deal if they didn’t have assurances Kohberger would take responsibility for the killings, making the chances of an Alford plea questionable.

CNN’s Norma Galeana and Betul Tuncer contributed to this report.
 
Is it feasible for him to plead guilty to the two murders where the victims accept the plea deal and then stand trial for the other two?

That could be the best of both worlds.
That's an interesting thought. I doubt it somehow. I mean would he take the deal then? Or would the P who then have to try a case or two anyhow?

You know, they are "separate" murders, each is a victim so it is an interesting thought. They maybe could try separately of course (unsure) but I think the deal would be off if something like that was done.
 

Steve Goncalves was stunned over the weekend when he heard that prosecutors in Moscow, Idaho, had reached a plea deal with Bryan Kohberger, the man charged in the 2022 stabbing deaths of his daughter, Kaylee, and three other University of Idaho students.
Just days earlier, Goncalves said he and a few of the victims’ loved ones told prosecutors they did not support a plea deal. Instead, they urged prosecutors to continue pursuing the death penalty in Kohberger’s upcoming quadruple murder trial, which Goncalves hoped would bring much-needed closure to their families.
“We don’t want to deal. We’re not interested in that. We didn’t wait two and a half years for this,” the father said he told prosecutors on a Friday afternoon call.
Goncalves said he walked away from the conversation with the impression that a plea deal was not a serious option in the case, leaving him blindsided when he received an email just two days later notifying him a deal had been reached.
Ultimately, it was Kohberger’s attorneys who broached the possibility of a plea deal as they endured a series of legal blows to their defense strategy, Goncalves told CNN’s Jim Sciutto, citing conversations with prosecutors last week.
The agreement would avoid a trial by allowing Kohberger to plead guilty to all four counts of murder in exchange for the government dropping the death penalty in the killings of Kaylee Goncalves, Ethan Chapin, Xana Kernodle and Madison Mogen, a person familiar with the matter told CNN.
Goncalves and his family have slammed the deal as “hurried” and “secretive,” saying prosecutors should have sought input from victims’ loved ones on the conditions of the deal. Jeff Kernodle, Xana’s father, also expressed disappointment in the prosecutor’s decision.
Kernodle mourned the deal as a “missed opportunity to set a stronger precedent in how accountability should be handled in cases like this,” he said in a statement Tuesday.
“It could have sent a message to others that these kinds of horrific crimes carry real consequences. Instead, four beautiful lives were taken, and the person responsible won’t be used as an example to help prevent something like this from happening again,” Kernodle added.
In contrast, families of the other two victims say they support the plea deal.
Ben Mogen, father of Madison, told the Idaho Statesman he was choosing acceptance, adding the plea agreement would let his family avoid a trial and allow its wounds to keep healing. Ethan’s mother, Stacy Chapin, told CNN affiliate KHQ her family would be in court Wednesday “in support of the plea bargain.”
But the deal is not set in stone, and the judge could require Kohberger to confess to details of the crime, a legal expert said.
State District Judge Steven Hippler must approve the deal and will oversee a hearing in the case at 11 a.m. Wednesday, during which the plea agreement will be addressed, a letter from the prosecutor to a victim’s family says, according to an Idaho Statesman report.

Closed-door plea negotiations shrouded in mystery​

Plea deal negotiations are often protected by a halo of privacy, so details of the closed-door conversations between prosecutors and Kohberger’s attorneys are unlikely to come out unless one side steps forward, according to University of Idaho associate law professor Samuel Newton.
Commonly discussed in the legal process, plea deals involve prosecutors offering a defendant incentives, such as a less severe sentence, if they accept a guilty plea, Newton said.
The costs and time commitment of a death penalty case may have also played a role in both sides wanting to reach an early conclusion, Newton said. Death penalty convictions often lead to decades of painstaking appeal efforts, which he said some victims’ families describe as “torture.”
“The family is looking at … decades of legal proceedings in a death penalty case, versus if he takes life without parole, it’s done and the family gets that degree of closure,” Newton said.
Kohberger’s legal defense team has also suffered a series of losses in recent weeks which have narrowed their strategy options, including rulings barring the defense from submitting an official alibi – as no one could confirm Kohberger’s whereabouts at the time of the killings – and rejecting their attempt to present an “alternate perpetrator” theory.
During Wednesday’s hearing, the judge is likely to question Kohberger thoroughly to make sure he understands that he would be forfeiting his right to a trial and sentencing appeals if he accepts the deal, Newton said.
Kaylee Goncalves, Ethan Chapin, Xana Kernodle and Madison Mogen were killed Sunday, November 13, 2022 off campus at the University of Idaho.

Kaylee Goncalves, Ethan Chapin, Xana Kernodle and Madison Mogen were killed Sunday, November 13, 2022 off campus at the University of Idaho.

Obtained by CNN

Families push for details of the killings​

Both Goncalves and Kernodle have criticized prosecutors for not including provisions in the plea deal that would require Kohberger to confess to specific details of the crime. Those details could have been revealed at trial, which still leaves questions over motive and how the stabbings were carried out.
Goncalves hopes Judge Hippler will require Kohberger to make statements in court that would shed light on the remaining mysteries of the case. He also believes such statements would provide the suspect’s supporters – many of whom maintain his innocence – less ground to stand on.
“We’re all going to live with the repercussion for the rest of our lives … unless Hippler steps in and says, ‘You’re not going to just say you’re guilty. You’re going to communicate some of the details so these families can actually move on and not have to be dragged through this true crime nightmare over and over and over again.”
Kernodle agreed, saying in his statement, “It’s incredibly hard to accept that a trial won’t be happening. I had hoped the agreement would include conditions that required the defendant to explain his actions and provide answers to the many questions that still remain, especially where evidence is missing or unclear.”
Goncalves also believes the plea deal should have barred Kohberger from reaping financial gain from selling the details of his story in the future.

Could Kohberger maintain his innocence?​

There is a slim chance Kohberger could maintain his innocence while accepting the plea deal by entering an Alford plea, an option that stems from a 1970 Supreme Court case.
“The benefit of the Alford plea is for a defendant who feels that they’re innocent but wants to take the deal,” Newton said, noting there are no substantial differences between a regular guilty plea and an Alford plea. “It has the same result as a guilty plea. It’s just the defendant themselves is not going to say that they did it.”
If the defense went this route, the state may present a factual basis for Kohberger’s guilty plea, including details of how the crime was carried out, and would require him to say “guilty” after the facts were read, Newton said. Like a regular guilty plea, Kohberger would likely be waiving his right to appeal as well, he added.
Newton said it seems unlikely prosecutors would have agreed to a plea deal if they didn’t have assurances Kohberger would take responsibility for the killings, making the chances of an Alford plea questionable.

CNN’s Norma Galeana and Betul Tuncer contributed to this report.
Wow. First of all, they can't profit from their crime in ID so they have that one wrong, I just heard it in the Daybell case.

So the families are evenly split.

The two would NEVER be happy with an Alford plea where they don't admit guilt.

I think the judge will require he give details, however, it seems like the P has to give those questions if I recall, and let's hope they require all the two families want, like where the weapon is.

You know, the P got the D in this position which is probably always a goal. And the judge recently denied last ditch attempts by the D.

I can understand not wanting him on the face of this earth, and I can understand wanting answers, and a trial but I wonder if this deal wasn't struck, how these two families would feel when they are still going through appeal after appeal 20 years from now and probably for the rest of their lives.

I'm sure or imagine the P and the judge are aware of what is going on and that some of the families are not happy. Hopefully he will require all they want, however,, there is no guarantee he would be telling the truth either.

I think it was in the News Nation thing above that Goncalvez seemed to be happy with LE, and I think the judge, but NOT with the prosecutor who made this deal.

It does still seem like they don't entirely understand the process and that was on the P and team to ensure they know how things work.

I don't know if they could have put all that in the plea agreement either, probably they could have, unsure.

He is not being not held accountable, he has a firm sentence on four counts. They seem to feel that way though.

I think they are not happy about no trial either.

One thing I do agree with, a good P would have sat down with all the families and went over this with them before ever agreeing. They don't HAVE to though. Should be interesting today.

It sounds as if they have somewhat accepted this is going to happen but they want answers and more. Not saying they like it though.
 
Is it feasible for him to plead guilty to the two murders where the victims accept the plea deal and then stand trial for the other two?

That could be the best of both worlds.
I doubt that would happen. No one would gain anything from that. Other than 2 families wanting to control the criminal justice system. IMO.
 
I doubt that would happen. No one would gain anything from that. Other than 2 families wanting to control the criminal justice system. IMO.
I agree. The deal would not go through at al imo if such could even happen or the families even asked for such. It was an interesting thought though, each person is a victim in their own right.

I yell about victim rights a lot. They aren't really there for the most part and I think those never having been through such understand that. It was tough for us to find some things out.

Fortunately they listened to us. The deal he wanted basically gave him NO time for murder. I forget what it was but it was ridiculous. Probation, a very little bit of county jail time IF there was even that. He got a very light sentence as it was but the deal was gravy for him and worse by far.

I get to a point they have been waiting for trial. Ours was delayed many a time and took three years. It's a very hard thing, and I guarantee part of the process of the grief even can't be processed until it is all over and justice comes, then it is all this delayed grief.

What I have trouble though understanding is THIS is a solid four life sentences, no appeals, I don't think I would risk it with a deal like this, going to trial I mean.

I don't know, they need more interaction maybe with he families and could improve in that way.

If true, they had just talked with the P and he only mentioned the possibility of a deal, made it not a focus of the conversation and if true, then the P went ahead and agreed to a deal and never had them in to explain and sit down first.

Today should be interesting but that's not a happy thought, these families are really going through it. Personally, I'd never pass on a solid deal like that and risk trial and it is hard to understand. Both families that are upset and both say they need to start holding someone who does something like this accountable but they DID. They also got the D in a position which was not where they wanted to be. The D atty. hoped to get the DP off the table and tried everything and had they, they would have dealt down from there. It did not work and so they had to deal.

They may have good reason to be upset with the one Goncalvez mentions and maybe over a lot of things, he says one day they will share more.
 
I agree. The deal would not go through at al imo if such could even happen or the families even asked for such. It was an interesting thought though, each person is a victim in their own right.

I yell about victim rights a lot. They aren't really there for the most part and I think those never having been through such understand that. It was tough for us to find some things out.

Fortunately they listened to us. The deal he wanted basically gave him NO time for murder. I forget what it was but it was ridiculous. Probation, a very little bit of county jail time IF there was even that. He got a very light sentence as it was but the deal was gravy for him and worse by far.

I get to a point they have been waiting for trial. Ours was delayed many a time and took three years. It's a very hard thing, and I guarantee part of the process of the grief even can't be processed until it is all over and justice comes, then it is all this delayed grief.

What I have trouble though understanding is THIS is a solid four life sentences, no appeals, I don't think I would risk it with a deal like this, going to trial I mean.

I don't know, they need more interaction maybe with he families and could improve in that way.

If true, they had just talked with the P and he only mentioned the possibility of a deal, made it not a focus of the conversation and if true, then the P went ahead and agreed to a deal and never had them in to explain and sit down first.

Today should be interesting but that's not a happy thought, these families are really going through it. Personally, I'd never pass on a solid deal like that and risk trial and it is hard to understand. Both families that are upset and both say they need to start holding someone who does something like this accountable but they DID. They also got the D in a position which was not where they wanted to be. The D atty. hoped to get the DP off the table and tried everything and had they, they would have dealt down from there. It did not work and so they had to deal.

They may have good reason to be upset with the one Goncalvez mentions and maybe over a lot of things, he says one day they will share more.
I'm sure I'll be working during the hearing so I'll get it 2nd hand.

I'm concerned. I hope no one gets themselves arrested because the only thing they want is for BK to be dead, too. I'm not kidding.
 
I'm sure I'll be working during the hearing so I'll get it 2nd hand.

I'm concerned. I hope no one gets themselves arrested because the only thing they want is for BK to be dead, too. I'm not kidding.
He very well might die before that state ever executes anybody in the first place. Last execution was many years ago and there will be plenty of others in line before him. They are also taking a chance of somebody on the jury to not agree with death penalty or it get overturned on appeal. Then they would be having to go through all of this at least another time with the same chances of things but going their way.
 
I doubt that would happen. No one would gain anything from that. Other than 2 families wanting to control the criminal justice system. IMO.
I agree. The only reason Kohberger took this plea deal is because it removes the possibility of him getting the death penalty. If that incentive is taken away he has zero reason to accept a plea deal.
 
I'm sure I'll be working during the hearing so I'll get it 2nd hand.

I'm concerned. I hope no one gets themselves arrested because the only thing they want is for BK to be dead, too. I'm not kidding.
I get it but I'm not quite as worried about that. He (Kaylee's dad) seemed to be resigned a bit in something above, just that he HOPES they are going to make him give answers, etc. and they are heard.

Of course I could be wrong, he is livid, but he has been that way from day one. He talks about telling us one day of all they dealt with.

I mean he could have went to any hearing and did something...

He also WANTED a jury to decide.

So while I get why people think that, I don't think he will do anything BUT I should never say never. I do think they will expect their say and aren't going to be happy if they can't be heard.
 
I get it but I'm not quite as worried about that. He (Kaylee's dad) seemed to be resigned a bit in something above, just that he HOPES they are going to make him give answers, etc. and they are heard.

Of course I could be wrong, he is livid, but he has been that way from day one. He talks about telling us one day of all they dealt with.

I mean he could have went to any hearing and did something...

He also WANTED a jury to decide.

So while I get why people think that, I don't think he will do anything BUT I should never say never. I do think they will expect their say and aren't going to be happy if they can't be heard.
I'm not sure why some family members want a jury to decide vs a guilty plea.

While unlikely what would they feel if a jury came back with a not guilty verdict? Not very good.
 
I wasn't sure what time the hearing is because I keep seeing 11:AM local time and wasn't sure what local time is. Boise in on MT so it's in about 55 minutes from now.
 
I'm not sure why some family members want a jury to decide vs a guilty plea.

While unlikely what would they feel if a jury came back with a not guilty verdict? Not very good.
I don't think it would be not guilty, but a chance of a hung jury is always a possibility although I think with the evidence, it would only be one rogue juror at most and then it would have to be retried. The DP could not be agreed on though and then where are they?

I don't really understand it either, I'm trying not to judge.

You said above I think and I've said it too but I don't think they understand the process well and that's on both their attorney and the P in my opinion.

Nate should be up with this, he was going to start his show early. I will check.
 

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