JOSHUA "JJ" VALLOW, TYLEE RYAN, TAMMY DAYBELL, & CHARLES VALLOW: State of Idaho/Arizona vs. Lori *GUILTY* & Chad Daybell for murder

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Police seem to be no closer to finding 7-year-old Joshua “JJ” Vallow and 17-year-old Tylee Ryan than they were when this story began months ago.

Since that time, the story has gained international attention as it’s taken twists and turns involving a purported cult, dead spouses, delusions of divinity and preparing for the end of the world. Despite all the angles, and the ever-growing number of people related to the case, the facts remain essentially the same as when it was first announced.

The two children remain missing and the parents, Lori (Vallow) Daybell, and her new husband, Chad Daybell, refuse to disclose their whereabouts to police. Both have been named persons of interest in the disappearance of the children. Law enforcement is also investigating the deaths of the Daybells’ previous respective spouses, Charles Vallow and Tammy Daybell, though neither Chad nor Lori have been named suspects in those cases.

Written timeline of events
  • April 3, 2018 - Tylee Ryan's father, Joseph Ryan, dies. Death ruled heart attack.
  • December 2018 - Chad Daybell & Lori Vallow make first appearance on Preparing a People podcast.
  • February 2019 - Charles Vallow files for divorce from Lori, claiming she viewed herself as a god preparing for the second coming, and she would kill him if he got in her way.
  • February - April 2019 - Lori disappears for nearly two months, leaving her children with others.
  • June 2019 - Lori's niece demands a divorce from her husband, who says she shares similar beliefs to her aunt.
  • July 11, 2019 - Charles Vallow shot and killed by Lori's brother Alex Cox. Shooting initially ruled self-defense.
  • August 2019 - Lori moves to Rexburg, Idaho with kids
  • September 3, 2019 - Joshua "JJ" Vallow enrolled in school
  • September 23, 2019 - JJ last attended school
  • September 24, 2019 - Lori unenrolls JJ from school, saying she would be homeschooling him.
  • September 2019 - Tylee also seen in September, but it's unclear when and where (she had graduated early)
  • October 2, 2019 - Lori's niece's ex-husband was shot at, missing his head by inches. Shooter was driving a vehicle registered to Charles Vallow.
  • October 9, 2019 - Tammy Daybell, Chad's wife, called 911 and said a masked man shot at her with a paintball gun.
  • October 19, 2019 - Tammy Daybell dies, death is ruled natural
  • October 25, 2019 - Tylee, or someone using her phone, texts a friend
  • Late October / Early November 2019 - Chad Daybell & Lori Vallow get married
  • November 26, 2019 - Welfare check requested for JJ at the request of extended family - police are told he is in Arizona with family, but he is not
  • November 27, 2019 - Police return to serve a search warrant, finding the Daybell's gone
  • December 12, 2019 - Lori's brother, who had shot her ex-husband, dies mysteriously in Arizona
  • December 20, 2019 - Search for JJ and Tylee goes public
  • December 30, 2019 - LE says Lori knows where her children are but will not cooperate
  • January 25, 2020 - Chad & Lori are located in Hawaii, served with a notice that she must produce the children within 5 days
  • January 30, 2020 - Lori fails to produce JJ and Tylee

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edited by staff to add new media link
 
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WTH is wrong with these children? Several times in this Chad was more upset and despondent than anyone else. I would guess most of us would consider that an act. But like NO reaction from Garth and Emma and so on. I'm sorry but I'm starting to wonder about a whole lot more than just denial. Even allowing for shock, their MOTHER just died out of the BLUE.

So beyond done with them. I hope on the stand it all comes across with flying colors.

I'm really starting to wonder at least of complicity at minimum and I never have before. Why the heck kind of place and people was Tammy stuck with? Seriously. Smdh.
He had probably gaslighted those kids all their lives
 
Was Chad at home during the "paintball" gun incident. Where was he? And why didn't the officer interview him?

1:11 p.m. Chad did not say anything to the officer. Cannon said Chad would have heard the entire conversation. Cannon found it odd that Chad never seemed to take any protective actions hearing what happened to his wife.
Yes, he was there, but I don’t know exactly where. Tammy called out to him and that’s when the attacker left.
 
It was Emma who didn't want the autopsy apparently.

WEDNESDAY 24th - 1st update.
Sorry for delay - my phone was playing up and wouldn't copy pasta . Ghosts in the machine?

LIVE UPDATES FROM THE CHAD DAYBELL TRIAL​

CLICK HERE TO WATCH THE TRIAL LIVE

Please excuse any typos – these updates are live.

11:33 a.m. Miller says Tammy had the stamina to complete workouts. Prior is done. Miller is released from subpoena.

11:31 a.m. Miller said Daybell was attending the high intensity classes for at least a year and a half.

11:29 a.m. Miller believes Tammy Daybell started working at the school in Sugar City in 2018.

11:27 a.m. “I would say the time she started the fitness class, her overall image of herself had improved. It looked like she was in great health to me,” Miller said. She was in complete shock learning about Tammy’s death. Hours before that, she had seen her at work and Tammy was happy, healthy and conversing with kids at work. “She seemed perfectly healthy to me,” Miller said.

11:26 a.m. Miller would see Tammy every day at work.

11:26 a.m. Miller said at first Tammy and her daughter could not complete the workouts correctly but overtime did well.

11:24 a.m. Miller is talking about how Tammy and her daughter attended the fitness class.

11:22 a.m. Wixom asking questions to Miller. She was a school teacher at Central Elementary in Sugar City for over 30 years. She worked with Tammy Daybell. Miller was on the committee to interview Tammy for a position at the school. She also attended a high fitness class with Tammy.

11:21 a.m. Shanna Miller now has been called to the stand.

11:20 a.m. Harris is done testifying. She is released from subpoena.

11:19 a.m. Wixom now back asking questions.

11:17 a.m. Harris saw Emma Daybell in the high intensity class with Tammy. Emma was also in the clogging class that Harris taught.

11:16 a.m. Harris: I would say she was a very fit woman (talking about Tammy).

11:16 a.m. There were at least five classes that Tammy attended for clogging before she died.

11:14 a.m.Harris talked to her regularly in these classes. Wixom done questioning Harris. Prior now asking questions.

11:14 a.m Harris went to a high fitness class in St. Anthony. She stood by Tammy in the class. It’s a very high intensity class, burpees and explosive movements. That class was held two times a week for 60 minutes. Tammy went in late September of 2019. Harris said she observed Tammy keeping up in class and was doing the high intensity moves.

11:11 a.m. Harris doesn’t recall any issues with Tammy getting tired or falling behind in her clogging class that she taught.

11:10 a.m.Harris said Daybell came to her class in early August and September in 2019. Every week, 60 minute class, once a week.

11:08 a.m. Wixom questions Harris. Asking her about Tammy Daybell. She said Daybell was a clogging student of hers in Sugar City and worked as a librarian. She would see her all the time. We were friends, Harris said. We would have conversations more than a hello.

11:07 a.m. Kelsie Harris has been called as the next witness.

11:06 a.m. Boyce: That concludes the testimony of Dye.

11:05 a.m. Wixom sits down. Prior back on the stand asking questions to Dye.

11:03 a.m. Wixom talking about the scene again when Tammy Daybell was found dead.

10:58 a.m. Dye amended Tammy’s death certificate later due to the results of the autopsy and learning two other dead children at the same residence: JJ and Tylee.

10:57 a.m. Dye mostly talked to Chad and Emma on the scene. Did not talk to Garth very much. Garth would mainly nod to questions.

10:56 a.m. Dye recalls looking for medical history and medications and looked in the bedroom and the nightstand drawers for anything suspicious in the Daybell home. Dye was there with deputy coroner and an officer.

10:54 a.m.Prior off the stand. Wixom is back on the stand to question Dye.

10:54 a.m.Tammy Daybell’s autopsy was done in Utah. Click here.

10:49 a.m. Prior: At the time of digging her (Tammy) up, where you looking for something? Dye: “Suspicious activity and anything that resulted in homicide.” This was after talking to police.

10:48 a.m. Prior talking about how FBI was involved with an order to remove Tammy’s body from the ground after she was buried.

10:47 a.m. Prior: Emma talked about how her mother Tammy was taking clogging classes but couldn’t keep up. Prior brings up the temple and that Tammy fainted. There were other instances listed in a report. Prior: You made a determination that there was a medical reason as to how she passed away. But it all changed right? Dye says yes.

10:44 a.m. Prior: You were told that Tammy would have minor fits consistent with seizures correct? Dye says yes.

10:41 a.m. Prior is listing the different medications that Tammy Daybell took and confirming it with Dye.

10:38 a.m. Prior: Did you talk to Garth about how he bought her (Tammy) a quarter pounder and french fries? Dye: No. I did not identify what was in her stomach. There were contents in her stomach. Prior: We don’t know if Tammy threw up or not before she died right? Other than what Chad told you? Dye says yes.

10:37 a.m. Prior is asking Dye about the old bruises and foam coming from Tammy’s mouth. He is also talking about how Dye issued her death certificate.

10:35 a.m. Prior is asking Dye about “old bruises” in the picture of Tammy Daybell’s arm and asking if those are it in the picture and Dye is responding and saying yes.

10:34 a.m. Photo of Tammy’s right arm showing some discoloration is being admitted for an exhibit. Judge Boyce will not publish to the public due to its graphic nature.

10:30 a.m. Blood tinged (?) foam is also written on the body chart for Tammy Daybell. Old bruising was also written. Prior: You didn’t put “new bruising” did you? Dye: No.

10:28 a.m. Lividity was found on Tammy’s entire body according to the body chart, Prior asks and Dye says yes.

10:28 a.m.Prior is putting a body chart up on the projector screen so everyone can see it. It’s a little difficult on my end to see.

10:22 a.m.Prior continues questioning Fremont County Coroner Brenda Dye. Asking her about what she did at the scene when she responded to Tammy Daybell’s body back in October 2019.

10:21 a.m. Court is back in session.

9:46 a.m. After the sidebar…Judge Boyce says: we need to get an exhibit prepared. We will take a mid morning recess. We will take a 30 minute break. Come back at 10:15 a.m.

9:45 a.m. The sidebar is still taking place. Chad Daybell appears to be reading through some notes at the table that he is sitting at.

9:39 a.m. Sidebar taking place right now with Judge Boyce and attorneys.

9:38 a.m. Brenda Dye is currently reviewing a police report that was from the day they responded to the Daybell home when Tammy was found dead. Prior asks Judge Boyce for a sidebar. Boyce asks to wait.

brenda dye pic finalFremont County Coroner Brenda Dye. | EastIdahoNews.com
9:34 a.m. Emma (Daybell) stated she didn’t want an autopsy done because she didn’t want her mother to be treated that way, Prior asks and Dye says yes.

9:31 a.m. Prior is asking Dye about responding to the scene of Tammy Daybell when she was found dead.

9:29 a.m. Prior is asking Dye questions about Tammy’s bruises. Dye used the word “old bruises” in her report. Dye answers yes.

9:25 a.m. Prior is questioning Dye on legal statutes right now.

9:21 a.m. Chad is watching questioning intently. He has his arms crossed on the table and is leaning forward.

9:18 a.m. John Prior–Chad’s attorney– is now at the stand for cross examination of Brenda Dye. Wixom is done asking questions to Dye.

9:16 a.m. Wixom asks if Dye had any regrets. Dye said she has regrets from her original decision. “Had I known that information, I would have ordered an autopsy. At that time, with my limited training and being new, I did the best I could with the training I had at that time.”

9:15 a.m. Dye: I received a call from Arizona Police. They wanted my records. Chad’s name was brought up. Lori Vallow, Alex Cox, Chad Daybell’s (names were brought up.)

9:12 a.m. Dye is talking about Tammy’s autopsy: As they were dissecting the bruise, it was a very deep bruise on her arm. It didn’t make sense she had thrown up the night before because she had stomach contents. Her stomach was full of food. If she threw up, there wouldn’t be food in her stomach during the autopsy, Dye said. I am the one who signs the death certificate that makes that determination. All of her organs were healthy. The only organ that was not healthy was her lungs. There were a lot of foam in her lungs.

9:11 a.m. She has made amendments to Tammy’s death certificate…like homicide. Tammy’s body was exhumed. There was an autopsy done. Click here to view what the autopsy had shown.

9:08 a.m. Dye determined Tammy’s death was Pulmonary edema: the back up of fluid in the lungs. A “cardiac event.”

9:05 a.m. We previously did a background story on Brenda Dye. Click here.

9:03 a.m. At about 12:30 Tammy was having a coughing fit. This is talking about the previous night, Dye said. Tammy reportedly threw up.

9:02 a.m. Chad stated that Tammy had been feeling really off for the past few months, Dye said. She felt outside of her body “Not normal” that she had been having fainting spells and one occasion they were at the alter at the temple and that Tammy fainted. She had low blood pressure but didn’t seek medical attention and that she didn’t like going to the doctor and she treated everything naturally. There was a natural remedy book in the side table in her bedroom.

9 a.m. Chad said to Dye that he felt her body roll off the bed and that’s what woke him up. I asked her how it was possible because she was really cold, Dye said. He thinks it was because he pulled on the sheets and that Tammy was going through menopause and she liked to sleep with her feet out of the bed.

8:58 a.m. Dye looked to see if there was signs of struggled. She saw rigor mortis and lividity. Dye said Tammy was cold to the touch. Dye learned that Tammy died on her back.

8:57 a.m. I observed the blood coming from her mouth, kind of a pink foam. She was wrapped in a blanket. I asked if that was the position she was found and chad said no, Dye said She was hanging off of the bed, Chad told her. When he discovered that she was dead, they called Garth and picked her up off the floor.

8:56 a.m. I am holding a picture of Tammy deceased on the bed, Dye said. She was handed an exhibit.

8:54 a.m. After I looked at the body, I questioned Chad about Tammy’s past health history, Dye said.

8:52 a.m. Dye called her deputy coroner to come. It took Dye 45 minutes to get to the scene of Daybell’s home. The decedents husbands was very distraught and crying, Dye said. I observed Chad the husband, very upset and distraught. Garth (Chad’s son), was emotionless to me, Dye said. This is when Tammy Daybell died, and Dye responded.

8:51 a.m. Dye is being asked if she knew any of the Daybell’s and she said no. She received a call from dispatch that there was an unattended death that she needed to respond to. She received the call early morning. This is back in 2019.

8:50 a.m. How do you know what lividity means? Wixom is asking. Dye It’s the lowest point of the body of the blood pools when somebody is no longer living…it looks like a bruise. It helps Dye know how the body was found, how the position of the body was at the time of death. It’s important to know if the body was moved. That’s the most important, Dye said. Rigor mortis is stiffening of the body and occurs two to six hours after death. Releases after 8 hours of death. This is important to determine time of death, Dye says.

8:45 a.m. “We look for weapons, we look for medications, we look for the health history…Dye is talking about responding to an unattended death. A death that is not directly under doctors care.

8:44 a.m. “We respond to unattended deaths… determine cause of death….I sign off on the death certificate,” Dye said.

8:43 a.m. Fremont County Deputy Prosecutor Rocky Wixom is questioning Dye. Dye has been coroner since January 2019. They are currently discussing what kind of training she has.

8:40 a.m. The state will be calling Brenda Dye who is currently the Fremont County Coroner.

8:39 a.m. Chad Daybell is wearing a white shirt and a tie.

8:38 a.m.: Court is now in session. Jury being brought in.

8:37 a.m. We are still waiting for court to begin.

8:25 a.m. Good morning. This is Andrea Olson with EastIdahoNews.com reporting on the trial today. I am filling in for Nate Eaton on his week off. I am not in the courtroom but I’ll do my best to bring you updates from the court’s livestream. It might be a challenge to see specific details as I am reporting from Idaho Falls.
 
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Coroner qualifications in Idaho:

What are the qualifications specified by law?
After January 1, 2010, each county coroner shall complete twenty-four (24) hours of continuing education on a biennial calendar basis. Idaho Code Ann. § 31-2810.

No person shall be elected to the office of coroner unless he has attained the age of twenty-one (21) years at the time of his election, is a citizen of the United States and shall have resided within the county one (1) year next preceding his election . . .
All newly elected or appointed county coroners shall attend a coroner’s school within one (1) year of taking office. Such school shall be sponsored or endorsed by the Idaho state association of county coroners. Idaho Code Ann. § 34-622.

From what I'm reading, they don't need any coroner education until AFTER they are elected. I've always been bothered that they dismissed an autopsy that easily, but Nate did mention that the qualifications for election were sparce.

It also says there If a death occurs that is not attended by a physician and the cause of death cannot be certified by a physician, the coroner must refer the investigation of the death to the sheriff of the county or the chief of police of the city in which the incident causing the death occurred or, if such county or city is unknown, to the sheriff or chief of police of the county or city where the body was found. The investigation shall be the responsibility of the sheriff or chief of police.
 

Wednesday 24th- (2nd) Final update​

REFRESH FOR UPDATES

LIVE UPDATES FROM THE CHAD DAYBELL TRIAL​

CLICK HERE TO WATCH THE TRIAL LIVE
Please excuse any typos — these updates are live.


4:22 p.m. Thank you for bearing with me today! Reporter Kalama Hines will be taking over tomorrow.

4:21 p.m. Boyce will rule on the motions tomorrow morning at 8:30 a.m. Jurors will be brought in at 9 a.m. Court is done for the day.

4:19 p.m. Prior said it is hearsay, and the timing of it all is suspect.

4:15 p.m. Other motion in limine being discussed in regards to witness Janet Anderson that allege statements about Tammy Daybell as “a zombie.” Wixom tells the court that these motions are all about two witnesses with two statements, and they are trying to enter the testimony in court. Wixom wants it to be admitted into trial.

4:13 p.m. Boyce will get an oral ruling on motion at 8:30 a.m. tomorrow.

4:11 p.m. Lots of legal talk right now.

4:04 p.m. Prior and Wood discussing back and forth about life insurance. Lots of “hearsay” issues.

3:51 p.m. There is a motion in limine that relates to a proposed statement made by Janice Olson regarding Tammy Daybell’s life insurance. Another motion “in limine” is in regards to Janet Anderson that allege statements about Tammy Daybell as “a zombie.”

3:44 p.m. Prosecutor Rob Wood addressing the court. He is asking Kay Woodcock (JJ Vallow’s grandmother and Charles Vallow’s sister, who is a designated victim in this case and can give an impact statement) to be able to stand in for Charles Vallow during the trial. Annie Cushing would be in place for Tylee Ryan. (Cushing is her aunt.) No objections.

3:42 p.m. Boyce came back after a 20 minute break. Motions are going to be discussed. Two motions from the state. One is a notice from the court about designation of victims.

3:20 p.m.Court has finished for the day–jury has been excused. Detective Kaaiakamanu was not finished on the stand and should be back again tomorrow. Boyce is talking about motions that will be discussed in regards to designating victims in the case. He wants to take a break and come back in 20 minutes. The motions will be streamed live for the public he says.

3:18 p.m. Boyce said there are some motions he is a part of tomorrow. He wants to start court at 9 a.m. tomorrow. Next week, court won’t happen on Tuesday, April 30.

3:18 p.m.Blake would like to show an exhibit but it is not working.

3:13 p.m.Blake now asking about Alex Cox again.

3:08 p.m. Blake is asking Kaaiakamanu about paintballs guns and what he knows about them.

3:06 p.m. Blake is asking about a firearm that was seized. It appears it could have been what was used during the “paintball incident.”

3:05 p.m.Blake asking Kaaiakamanu about Alex Cox now. Prior and Daybell are chatting on the side.

3:00 p.m. Another 911 call is being listened to. This is the one from Tammy Daybell from Oct. 9, 2019. Tammy describes that someone was dressed in black and had a mask. She said he had a paintball gun. She yelled for her husband Chad.
2:57 p.m. Court is playing the 911 call from the paintball gun incident back on Oct. 9, 2019. The call was made by Tammy Daybell’s son-in-law. Click here to listen.
2:54 p.m. “My main focus was Tammy,” Kaaiakamanu said when he was involved in the investigation. He did assist with locating and helping JJ and Tylee too. Blake asked him about Oct. 9, 2019. The nature of the call had to due with a suspicious event. It involved a “gun or paintball gun being pointed at someone.”
2:52 p.m. No investigation was opened at that time after the unattended death. An investigation was later opened for Tammy Daybell. Kaaiakamanu was involved in Tammy Daybell’s case in March 2020.
2:51 p.m. During that time, he did not learn of anything suspicious from the unattended death–which was Tammy Daybell.
2:48 p.m. Kaaiakamanu had talked with Officer Greenhalgh on an unattended death. He could not go to the call in 2019 because he was helping Idaho Falls Police Department with an officer involved shooting.
2:45 p.m. Detective Vince Kaaiakamanu has been called to the stand. He was a detective at the time of the case. He was with Fremont County Sheriff’s Office. He is currently with the Madison County Sheriff’s Office.
2:45 p.m. Blake is done. Mattingly might be recalled to the stand but for now he is finished and remains subpoenaed.
2:40 p.m. Blake is asking if any of Chad’s children voluntarily come forward with information. Mattingly: “Not one.” Emma was not willing to speak to Mattingly and did not provide any information on her mother’s health, he says.
2:39 p.m. Prior is done. Blake back on the podium.
2:37 p.m. There was a fitbit competition that Tammy Daybell was a part of. Mattingly learned that Tammy was a competitive person.
2:37 p.m.Prior is questioning Mattingly about the fitbit. It is not clear if Tammy Daybell was the one that was wearing it the entire time.
2:33 p.m. Prior is going through the day that Tammy Daybell died. Also discussing life insurance.
2:32 p.m.Chad appears to be intently listening to what is happening.
2:28 p.m. Prior is talking about Tammy Daybell’s health history like her anemia.
2:23 p.m.Joe (or Joseph) Murray refused to talk too, Mattingly said. Joe Murray is married to Emma.
2:21 p.m.I have referenced Emma a few times as Emma Daybell. She is Emma Murray. But she is Chad and Tammy’s daughter.
2:20 p.m. Prior is asking Mattingly about how he mentioned talking about Emma Daybell and how Mattingly tried to talk to her. He is asking dates and times.
2:18 p.m. Total life insurance: on the Primerica there was $300,000 and LifeMap was $130,000. Mattingly learned that both had been paid out to Chad Daybell. Blake done questioning. Prior now at podium.
2:16 p.m.Blake hands Detective Mattingly an exhibit. He is looking through the pages. Meanwhile, Chad Daybell is talking with his attorney John Prior and they appear to be looking at his screen.
2:13 p.m.“I found that she was very active…. and a go getter,” Mattingly says of Tammy Daybell. He didn’t get any indication that she was slowing down.
2:11 p.m.Out of all the months, Tammy was generally above average or she was close when it came to her step count on her fitbit. Mattingly did not see anything where she was “severely slowing down.” Mattingly researched that 10,000 steps is normal to have per day.
2:09 p.m.They were provided the step counts from day to day and year to year, Mattingly says in regards to Tammy Daybell’s fitbit.
2:08 p.m.Mattingly says they were not able to get heart rate information from Tammy’s fitbit. The sleep data was very sparse, Mattingly said.
2:06 p.m. I cannot see the exhibit on the screen in the livestream. It’s very difficult to see the details but essentially fitbit information is being discussed.
2:03 p.m.Blake is back on the podium. She is putting an exhibit on the screen in regards to fitbit information. Mattingly is discussing the fitbit account for Tammy Daybell.
2:02 p.m. Court is back in session.
1:55 p.m. Court is still in break. Appears there are still issues with monitors for the jury.

1:37 p.m. There will be a quick break as court figures out the monitor situation for the jurors since another exhibit will have to be on the screen.

1:35 p.m. “We were looking for heart rate, sleep patterns…and their activity,” Mattingly says of the search warrant to fitbit.

1:32 p.m.On Tammy’s side of the bed, there was a fitbit and Mattingly said they requested a search warrant from Fitbit to look into her health.

1:31 p.m. Chad Daybell filled out this form. He wrote October 18, 2019–the day before Tammy died. Chad said her health started to have changes.

1:30 p.m. A monitor is not working in the jury pool. None of the jury can see what’s happening on their screens. Court is going to try and fix it.

1:28 p.m. Sidebar is over. The exhibit is on a projector screen. It appears to be a life insurance policy. This is very hard to see on the live feed.

1:27 p.m. There was an exhibit up on the screen and it has been taken down. Now there is sidebar.

1:24 p.m. I learned Tammy had two life insurance policies, Mattingly says.

1:22 p.m. Mattingly is being asked about reviewing reports from Tammy Daybell the day she died. Emma Daybell had said her mom had been slowing down, according to reports. Emma was unwilling to speak to Mattingly, he says. Mattingly made attempts to talk to her.

1:21 p.m. Tammy was reported by Chad to faint and slow down, and being dizzy.

1:19 p.m. Blake is asking Mattingly about Tammy Daybell’s medical records. She is asking if there was any indication of health issues. Mattingly says there were general health issues. She had been prescribed medication for wrist pain, and medication for managing depression.

1:17 p.m. He learned that Rexburg Police Department and FBI were looking for JJ and Tylee. In Arizona they were investigating the shooting of Boudreaux and then Charles Vallow incident.

1:15 p.m. There was not an investigation during the time of Tammy’s death until later in 2019.

1:12 p.m. He had learned that Tammy Daybell was the unattended death. He is describing talking to an officer about what the scene looked like. Deputy Greenhalgh is who he was talking to over the phone. He also said law enforcement is not the one who determines to have a autopsy. The coroner makes that decision.

1:11 p.m. Fremont County Prosecuting Attorney Lindsey Blake is questioning Mattingly on his background. She is asking him about an unattended death call on Oct. 19, 2019. This is in reference to Tammy Daybell.

1:08 p.m. The state is calling a new witness. Detective Bruce Mattingly with the Fremont County Sheriff’s Office

1:08 p.m. Chad Daybell and his Attorney John Prior appear to be chatting/whispering to each other a lot today.

1:06 p.m.Court is back in session after lunch break. The jury is being brought it.

11:48 a.m. There is going to be a break. The next witness will be lengthy, so the break is happening earlier. We will be back at 1 p.m.

11:47 a.m. Prior asks clarification. Tammy and her daughter did the high fit class. It was not Zumba. Geisler released from subpoena.

11:46 a.m. Geisler made a comment to Tammy during lunch saying that she wished she ate as healthy as her.

11:45 a.m. Prior done asking questions. Wixom back on. There is a clarification between a high-fit class and Zumba class. High fit is more intense. Zumba is a little more dancy.

11:43 a.m. Geisler said her and Tammy were good school friends. She never went to Tammy’s home.

11:42 a.m. Wixom done asking questions. Prior takes the stand.

11:41 a.m. The Friday before she died, she ate lunch with Tammy. She was healthy, happy, talkative. She was sitting by her son Seth. It was just a normal day, Geisler said. She was super surprised that Tammy passed away due to her being super healthy.

11:39 a.m. Geisler was in the front row, and Tammy and Emma were in the back row. They were always giggling and adding their own moves. Tammy loved the class, Geisler said. She said that Tammy kept up with the class. She does not recall Tammy ever taking breaks.

11:39 a.m. “We were good friends,” Geisler said of Tammy. Always bubbly and happy. She was a person that you wanted to be around. Geisler invited Tammy and Emma to a high-fitness class.

11:36 a.m. Jennifer Geisler called to the stand. Wixom questioning. She works at Central Elementary school. First-grade teacher. She has worked there for 26 years. She worked with Tammy Daybell in 2019 and says Tammy was the librarian. She would see Tammy every day.
 
Last edited:
Coroner qualifications in Idaho:

What are the qualifications specified by law?
After January 1, 2010, each county coroner shall complete twenty-four (24) hours of continuing education on a biennial calendar basis. Idaho Code Ann. § 31-2810.

No person shall be elected to the office of coroner unless he has attained the age of twenty-one (21) years at the time of his election, is a citizen of the United States and shall have resided within the county one (1) year next preceding his election . . .
All newly elected or appointed county coroners shall attend a coroner’s school within one (1) year of taking office. Such school shall be sponsored or endorsed by the Idaho state association of county coroners. Idaho Code Ann. § 34-622.

From what I'm reading, they don't need any coroner education until AFTER they are elected. I've always been bothered that they dismissed an autopsy that easily, but Nate did mention that the qualifications for election were sparce.

It also says there If a death occurs that is not attended by a physician and the cause of death cannot be certified by a physician, the coroner must refer the investigation of the death to the sheriff of the county or the chief of police of the city in which the incident causing the death occurred or, if such county or city is unknown, to the sheriff or chief of police of the county or city where the body was found. The investigation shall be the responsibility of the sheriff or chief of police.
That's pretty much how missouri does it, too. Now you see a part of why I distrust some of the more rural counties in my area. Often it's just somebody's buddy that gets elected IFYWIM.
 
2:40 p.m. Blake is asking if any of Chad’s children voluntarily come forward with information. Mattingly: “Not one.” Emma was not willing to speak to Mattingly and did not provide any information on her mother’s health, he says.

This is when I REALLY hope people who have passed on can't see what's happening on earth today. What a heartbreak this would be for Tammy! Makes me very very sad.
 
2:40 p.m. Blake is asking if any of Chad’s children voluntarily come forward with information. Mattingly: “Not one.” Emma was not willing to speak to Mattingly and did not provide any information on her mother’s health, he says.

This is when I REALLY hope people who have passed on can't see what's happening on earth today. What a heartbreak this would be for Tammy! Makes me very very sad.
I am so glad her workmates and colleagues spoke up for her.
 
I'm not going to judge it overboard because maybe they want some happy stuff after just having to testify but the timing seems a bit whatever. I haven't seen them on YT in forever but perhaps it just wasn't coming up for me until now. I wasn't even sure they were together or back together. I'm happy they seem happy. I am writing this as I listen to it and he does sound like they haven't been on in forever which is what I thought as I've not seen them. THey are having a BOY, first two were girls so he/they are excited.

I used to watch their other shows back when and I went a bit both ways about a few things... ONe can grow up a lot in a few years though in their young years and one had to consider Lori was his mom and what he went through and probably didn't have a good base of understanding a true family life and/dor how to be a breadwinner.

Still listening and he seems to have grown up a lot and may be in a better place. I hope so. He did a great job on the stand yesterday and in handling Prior as well.

Congrats to them. Here is Colby and wife. Meant in all humor, those that don't do YT won't see it. I don't think this will be in a news article, etc.

 
He had probably gaslighted those kids all their lives
I don't doubt that nor disagree with that. Not a bit. However, they are now adults and do not have Chad having the same power, control or presence he had in their lives. AND all but one were adults when their mother died. The lack of emotion (and I know people can vary) sounds extremely cold. Chad we know or can assume was putting on but his overboard act made their lack of ANY emotion even more stark it seems to this/these witness/es.

And they are out in the real world and have been even if it is all LDS world. I assume all or most work. They certainly know that most of the country and the world do not believe as they do about their dad. Emma I believe is the oldest and she most definitely it would seem was getting info from Chad to Lori and vice versa or well may have been through Mark Means and so on. And really, Chad tells them this woman framed him and he got involved with the wrong person but he then has her send Lori money and they know he was trying to raise her bail? Huh? What did dad say, bad Lori or not whose acts of her and her brother got him arrested deserves compassion and canteen money and Emma to befriend her? NO.

I hope Wood or whoever questions her (and the others) goes hard on all these things and more. I dont' think he needs to tear them new ones as people wouldn't like that but they are adults and no reason at all they can't be questioned hard by the other side as adults and just sitting there not knowing what to do or caught in a lie is not going to cut it.

Yeah they probably were entirely gaslighted but if they have looked at ANYTHING they know this by now or should. Jmo.
 
Coroner qualifications in Idaho:

What are the qualifications specified by law?
After January 1, 2010, each county coroner shall complete twenty-four (24) hours of continuing education on a biennial calendar basis. Idaho Code Ann. § 31-2810.

No person shall be elected to the office of coroner unless he has attained the age of twenty-one (21) years at the time of his election, is a citizen of the United States and shall have resided within the county one (1) year next preceding his election . . .
All newly elected or appointed county coroners shall attend a coroner’s school within one (1) year of taking office. Such school shall be sponsored or endorsed by the Idaho state association of county coroners. Idaho Code Ann. § 34-622.

From what I'm reading, they don't need any coroner education until AFTER they are elected. I've always been bothered that they dismissed an autopsy that easily, but Nate did mention that the qualifications for election were sparce.

It also says there If a death occurs that is not attended by a physician and the cause of death cannot be certified by a physician, the coroner must refer the investigation of the death to the sheriff of the county or the chief of police of the city in which the incident causing the death occurred or, if such county or city is unknown, to the sheriff or chief of police of the county or city where the body was found. The investigation shall be the responsibility of the sheriff or chief of police.
In my home county, you can be anyone and I'm not even certain the person is elected, I think appointed but can't swear to that one. We had an actual doctor in the position once many many years ago but then we also had a flat out no one in the job as well with no experience. I'm not even sure about schooling. For those that don't know, judges aren't much different. Not sure about elsewhere but in ours you don't have to be an attorney or anything, in our state I believe as well as a whole. Generally who is elected IS Ian attorney but no one has to be such. There is judge school after but if coroner school is anything like it, we are just talking a short course of I think a week tops or two, not a year or more lol.

Even so, in small places where murder is almost unheard of or was and largely still is, they sign off easily on most deaths. Always have, probably still do. It's always been that way in a large part of any town USA. And in many places still is. Do you know how many people are probably buried in this country that were foul play?

Another one very common and still common some places is an instant ruling of suicide without further investigation. Happened all of the time and likely still does.

When our murder happened, I can tell you that chances are good that it would have been written off but for a law I gather we have now that any death of a child HAS to be further reported and investigated or something on that order. The investigator told me that and it was news to me. I'm not saying it for sure would have but I can see it happening just as with all these things with Tammy that was written off and Chad and family believed.

It is scary and it is far past time that these kind of archaic practices go out the window. People aren't mostly good any longer and murder rare. And anyone certifying cause and manner of death darned well should be some expert. And families should not be able to say no autopsy if anything suspicious presents. I am understand the sensitivity towards not wanting this done to a loved one's body but there needs to be some kind of parameters set at least.

I almost did not get to this thread last night but did get the one set of tweets read finally and dont' know if there are more, there likely are and am behind and will likely be more so over the next couple of days but I did and have a lot to say about what I read. I also watched Nate's helper from yesterday and her show last night with interesting takes and was going to link but was so done for I don't think I did and never made it to catching up fully.

One thing I did note and want to say is again Emma and Garth. Again it says how emotional Chad was but coroner remarks on how entirely flat Garth was. And much about Emma too. Emma not wanting the autopsy. We knew that but always thought it was both Chad and Emma. I think don't we have the youngest and oldest here? Garth was the one still at home? The last born child? Do I have that right? And a flat emotionless child that came along well into his parents' years and all other siblings already present... Then Emma the oldest who seems to be dad's helper and protector or even a bit of a leader... Showing no emotion and saying no autopsy and there in short order. Didn't she work with mom and take kteh clogging or some exercise clsssl with her though...? So dad's little helper but mom's too or mom's attendee... I swear I didn't used to think so but something else is here e these kids... it keeps getting notee in testimony how these kids were.

Gaslighting yes but I think I'd also say groomed. I don't mean it in the sexual molestation way of groomed but groomed as to their position and role or something...

Garth helped dad after Tammy was "found" dead but Emma or Ms. Emma is something else. She almost seems like dad's wife. I don't mean that in the way it might sound. She is dad's enabler and helper though no doubt. Even the "leader" or mom of all... Of course she stuck her tongue out at reporters or whoever, so not a total adult. I wont' repeat all she has done from talking to Lori being I would say a go between, helping dad and so much more.

It seems the stage is already being set for these kids who Prior said some of which are going to testify. The jury (and us) are being told of how odd their behavior before they ever do. It did not matte much in Lori's but it does here. And they are not off limits. They aren't the age of poor Tylee and JJ. They are adults. And all were save one when this happened. I've said it before and will again, I am done with any sympathy for them. This is the age and time you start realizing or coming out of some cult like experience or conditioning especially with dad charged and gone and realizing it isn't how the rest of the world sees things or believes...

It may not be PC but I'm going there anyhow. This religion is bad news. Everything in it morphs this kind of stuff, accepts it or hides it. I've listened to PLENTY who left it.

Lori and Mel P allegedly were NOT wildly religious or practicing. Mel G was but also embraced all this other stuff IN IT.

The Seven Gatherers is something we have heard little on that Prior is trying to insert. Now his client is still one of those but yes they were all part. I think Linda had one too I did not get around to linking and beyond overloaded but think she or someone had that in theirs.

Chad, Lori, Mel P, Mel B, Zulema, Alex and David W. The seven. And I did not put Chad and Lori first in that as the leaders even though they seemed to be, at least Chad does... Prior is actually focused on Mel G as much or more than Lori...And I've had plenty of reason through the years to think she is instrumental and maybe even worse than Lori in some ways.

Jmo.

ETA This post is not a response to you or anything other than jumping off from the coroner remark to some catching up overall of course.
 
More often the the sly way is for one to step down before election then someone connected gets appointed who is "connected" and that's how some keep the power in in the good old boys club. Very, very common here. Then when election comes they are already an incumbent and many, too many just vote an incumbent in. IF even challenged with a running mate.
That's pretty much how missouri does it, too. Now you see a part of why I distrust some of the more rural counties in my area. Often it's just somebody's buddy that gets elected IFYWIM
 

Wednesday 24th- (2nd) Final update​

REFRESH FOR UPDATES

LIVE UPDATES FROM THE CHAD DAYBELL TRIAL​

CLICK HERE TO WATCH THE TRIAL LIVE
Please excuse any typos — these updates are live.


4:22 p.m. Thank you for bearing with me today! Reporter Kalama Hines will be taking over tomorrow.

4:21 p.m. Boyce will rule on the motions tomorrow morning at 8:30 a.m. Jurors will be brought in at 9 a.m. Court is done for the day.

4:19 p.m. Prior said it is hearsay, and the timing of it all is suspect.

4:15 p.m. Other motion in limine being discussed in regards to witness Janet Anderson that allege statements about Tammy Daybell as “a zombie.” Wixom tells the court that these motions are all about two witnesses with two statements, and they are trying to enter the testimony in court. Wixom wants it to be admitted into trial.

4:13 p.m. Boyce will get an oral ruling on motion at 8:30 a.m. tomorrow.

4:11 p.m. Lots of legal talk right now.

4:04 p.m. Prior and Wood discussing back and forth about life insurance. Lots of “hearsay” issues.

3:51 p.m. There is a motion in limine that relates to a proposed statement made by Janice Olson regarding Tammy Daybell’s life insurance. Another motion “in limine” is in regards to Janet Anderson that allege statements about Tammy Daybell as “a zombie.”

3:44 p.m. Prosecutor Rob Wood addressing the court. He is asking Kay Woodcock (JJ Vallow’s grandmother and Charles Vallow’s sister, who is a designated victim in this case and can give an impact statement) to be able to stand in for Charles Vallow during the trial. Annie Cushing would be in place for Tylee Ryan. (Cushing is her aunt.) No objections.

3:42 p.m. Boyce came back after a 20 minute break. Motions are going to be discussed. Two motions from the state. One is a notice from the court about designation of victims.

3:20 p.m.Court has finished for the day–jury has been excused. Detective Kaaiakamanu was not finished on the stand and should be back again tomorrow. Boyce is talking about motions that will be discussed in regards to designating victims in the case. He wants to take a break and come back in 20 minutes. The motions will be streamed live for the public he says.

3:18 p.m. Boyce said there are some motions he is a part of tomorrow. He wants to start court at 9 a.m. tomorrow. Next week, court won’t happen on Tuesday, April 30.

3:18 p.m.Blake would like to show an exhibit but it is not working.

3:13 p.m.Blake now asking about Alex Cox again.

3:08 p.m. Blake is asking Kaaiakamanu about paintballs guns and what he knows about them.

3:06 p.m. Blake is asking about a firearm that was seized. It appears it could have been what was used during the “paintball incident.”

3:05 p.m.Blake asking Kaaiakamanu about Alex Cox now. Prior and Daybell are chatting on the side.

3:00 p.m. Another 911 call is being listened to. This is the one from Tammy Daybell from Oct. 9, 2019. Tammy describes that someone was dressed in black and had a mask. She said he had a paintball gun. She yelled for her husband Chad.
2:57 p.m. Court is playing the 911 call from the paintball gun incident back on Oct. 9, 2019. The call was made by Tammy Daybell’s son-in-law. Click here to listen.
2:54 p.m. “My main focus was Tammy,” Kaaiakamanu said when he was involved in the investigation. He did assist with locating and helping JJ and Tylee too. Blake asked him about Oct. 9, 2019. The nature of the call had to due with a suspicious event. It involved a “gun or paintball gun being pointed at someone.”
2:52 p.m. No investigation was opened at that time after the unattended death. An investigation was later opened for Tammy Daybell. Kaaiakamanu was involved in Tammy Daybell’s case in March 2020.
2:51 p.m. During that time, he did not learn of anything suspicious from the unattended death–which was Tammy Daybell.
2:48 p.m. Kaaiakamanu had talked with Officer Greenhalgh on an unattended death. He could not go to the call in 2019 because he was helping Idaho Falls Police Department with an officer involved shooting.
2:45 p.m. Detective Vince Kaaiakamanu has been called to the stand. He was a detective at the time of the case. He was with Fremont County Sheriff’s Office. He is currently with the Madison County Sheriff’s Office.
2:45 p.m. Blake is done. Mattingly might be recalled to the stand but for now he is finished and remains subpoenaed.
2:40 p.m. Blake is asking if any of Chad’s children voluntarily come forward with information. Mattingly: “Not one.” Emma was not willing to speak to Mattingly and did not provide any information on her mother’s health, he says.
2:39 p.m. Prior is done. Blake back on the podium.
2:37 p.m. There was a fitbit competition that Tammy Daybell was a part of. Mattingly learned that Tammy was a competitive person.
2:37 p.m.Prior is questioning Mattingly about the fitbit. It is not clear if Tammy Daybell was the one that was wearing it the entire time.
2:33 p.m. Prior is going through the day that Tammy Daybell died. Also discussing life insurance.
2:32 p.m.Chad appears to be intently listening to what is happening.
2:28 p.m. Prior is talking about Tammy Daybell’s health history like her anemia.
2:23 p.m.Joe (or Joseph) Murray refused to talk too, Mattingly said. Joe Murray is married to Emma.
2:21 p.m.I have referenced Emma a few times as Emma Daybell. She is Emma Murray. But she is Chad and Tammy’s daughter.
2:20 p.m. Prior is asking Mattingly about how he mentioned talking about Emma Daybell and how Mattingly tried to talk to her. He is asking dates and times.
2:18 p.m. Total life insurance: on the Primerica there was $300,000 and LifeMap was $130,000. Mattingly learned that both had been paid out to Chad Daybell. Blake done questioning. Prior now at podium.
2:16 p.m.Blake hands Detective Mattingly an exhibit. He is looking through the pages. Meanwhile, Chad Daybell is talking with his attorney John Prior and they appear to be looking at his screen.
2:13 p.m.“I found that she was very active…. and a go getter,” Mattingly says of Tammy Daybell. He didn’t get any indication that she was slowing down.
2:11 p.m.Out of all the months, Tammy was generally above average or she was close when it came to her step count on her fitbit. Mattingly did not see anything where she was “severely slowing down.” Mattingly researched that 10,000 steps is normal to have per day.
2:09 p.m.They were provided the step counts from day to day and year to year, Mattingly says in regards to Tammy Daybell’s fitbit.
2:08 p.m.Mattingly says they were not able to get heart rate information from Tammy’s fitbit. The sleep data was very sparse, Mattingly said.
2:06 p.m. I cannot see the exhibit on the screen in the livestream. It’s very difficult to see the details but essentially fitbit information is being discussed.
2:03 p.m.Blake is back on the podium. She is putting an exhibit on the screen in regards to fitbit information. Mattingly is discussing the fitbit account for Tammy Daybell.
2:02 p.m. Court is back in session.
1:55 p.m. Court is still in break. Appears there are still issues with monitors for the jury.

1:37 p.m. There will be a quick break as court figures out the monitor situation for the jurors since another exhibit will have to be on the screen.

1:35 p.m. “We were looking for heart rate, sleep patterns…and their activity,” Mattingly says of the search warrant to fitbit.

1:32 p.m.On Tammy’s side of the bed, there was a fitbit and Mattingly said they requested a search warrant from Fitbit to look into her health.

1:31 p.m. Chad Daybell filled out this form. He wrote October 18, 2019–the day before Tammy died. Chad said her health started to have changes.

1:30 p.m. A monitor is not working in the jury pool. None of the jury can see what’s happening on their screens. Court is going to try and fix it.

1:28 p.m. Sidebar is over. The exhibit is on a projector screen. It appears to be a life insurance policy. This is very hard to see on the live feed.

1:27 p.m. There was an exhibit up on the screen and it has been taken down. Now there is sidebar.

1:24 p.m. I learned Tammy had two life insurance policies, Mattingly says.

1:22 p.m. Mattingly is being asked about reviewing reports from Tammy Daybell the day she died. Emma Daybell had said her mom had been slowing down, according to reports. Emma was unwilling to speak to Mattingly, he says. Mattingly made attempts to talk to her.

1:21 p.m. Tammy was reported by Chad to faint and slow down, and being dizzy.

1:19 p.m. Blake is asking Mattingly about Tammy Daybell’s medical records. She is asking if there was any indication of health issues. Mattingly says there were general health issues. She had been prescribed medication for wrist pain, and medication for managing depression.

1:17 p.m. He learned that Rexburg Police Department and FBI were looking for JJ and Tylee. In Arizona they were investigating the shooting of Boudreaux and then Charles Vallow incident.

1:15 p.m. There was not an investigation during the time of Tammy’s death until later in 2019.

1:12 p.m. He had learned that Tammy Daybell was the unattended death. He is describing talking to an officer about what the scene looked like. Deputy Greenhalgh is who he was talking to over the phone. He also said law enforcement is not the one who determines to have a autopsy. The coroner makes that decision.

1:11 p.m. Fremont County Prosecuting Attorney Lindsey Blake is questioning Mattingly on his background. She is asking him about an unattended death call on Oct. 19, 2019. This is in reference to Tammy Daybell.

1:08 p.m. The state is calling a new witness. Detective Bruce Mattingly with the Fremont County Sheriff’s Office

1:08 p.m. Chad Daybell and his Attorney John Prior appear to be chatting/whispering to each other a lot today.

1:06 p.m.Court is back in session after lunch break. The jury is being brought it.

11:48 a.m. There is going to be a break. The next witness will be lengthy, so the break is happening earlier. We will be back at 1 p.m.

11:47 a.m. Prior asks clarification. Tammy and her daughter did the high fit class. It was not Zumba. Geisler released from subpoena.

11:46 a.m. Geisler made a comment to Tammy during lunch saying that she wished she ate as healthy as her.

11:45 a.m. Prior done asking questions. Wixom back on. There is a clarification between a high-fit class and Zumba class. High fit is more intense. Zumba is a little more dancy.

11:43 a.m. Geisler said her and Tammy were good school friends. She never went to Tammy’s home.

11:42 a.m. Wixom done asking questions. Prior takes the stand.

11:41 a.m. The Friday before she died, she ate lunch with Tammy. She was healthy, happy, talkative. She was sitting by her son Seth. It was just a normal day, Geisler said. She was super surprised that Tammy passed away due to her being super healthy.

11:39 a.m. Geisler was in the front row, and Tammy and Emma were in the back row. They were always giggling and adding their own moves. Tammy loved the class, Geisler said. She said that Tammy kept up with the class. She does not recall Tammy ever taking breaks.

11:39 a.m. “We were good friends,” Geisler said of Tammy. Always bubbly and happy. She was a person that you wanted to be around. Geisler invited Tammy and Emma to a high-fitness class.

11:36 a.m. Jennifer Geisler called to the stand. Wixom questioning. She works at Central Elementary school. First-grade teacher. She has worked there for 26 years. She worked with Tammy Daybell in 2019 and says Tammy was the librarian. She would see Tammy every day.
Just finished this one. Think I"ve looked at in reverse order two posts but that's okay. Still have the gist of all and it is because I read from newest to oldest lol.
 
2:40 p.m. Blake is asking if any of Chad’s children voluntarily come forward with information. Mattingly: “Not one.” Emma was not willing to speak to Mattingly and did not provide any information on her mother’s health, he says.

This is when I REALLY hope people who have passed on can't see what's happening on earth today. What a heartbreak this would be for Tammy! Makes me very very sad.
Agree totally but have my own thoughts on that right or wrong. I think they can see but it does not hurt like it would when on earth and "alive" and they can see all that they are and that causes it and have a lot more knowledge and understanding than we do. That we will only know or gain when we "go" if we make it and pass through to the same place and realm. Of course I don't know, that's just how I look at it.

I am shocked at these "kids". Not entirely of course, there have been hints of such but we are really hearng it now The why is being paved imo from when they take the stand. I'd like to hear from the ones who possibly are not on the page say Emma is but doubtful we will. I hope and think there are one or two that hve started to wonder or weren't on board at all...
 
Even so, in small places where murder is almost unheard of or was and largely still is, they sign off easily on most deaths. Always have, probably still do. It's always been that way in a large part of any town USA. And in many places still is. Do you know how many people are probably buried in this country that were foul play?
snipped..

just possibly murder isn't as unheard of in some places as it is being reported due to these circumstances??? Methinks it's a total possiblilty and a most likely possibility.
 
snipped..

just possibly murder isn't as unheard of in some places as it is being reported due to these circumstances??? Methinks it's a total possiblilty and a most likely possibility.
Also the lack of tech in the places that do this also has to lead to many things going unnoticed.
 
snipped..

just possibly murder isn't as unheard of in some places as it is being reported due to these circumstances??? Methinks it's a total possiblilty and a most likely possibility.
Don't disagree there either and manipulating the crime rate or having no high crime but never "seeing" a murder or foul play would not be unheard of either imo. I will say though where I grew up and where I talk of there just aren't many murders and I doubt most deaths are suspicious. So there are still some areas that I get that mentality but I also wouldn't doubt hat a few that probably were murders were ignored depending on who it was... We never even saw one a year honestly but there are couple of old unsolved ones that I think were likely brushed under the rug... One was actually not our county but a neighboring one, actually all I am thinking of were neighboring counties but same kind of areas, maybe a BIT more likely to have a murder...
 
Also the lack of tech in the places that do this also has to lead to many things going unnoticed.
Yeah I agree there too. Or just looking into records or anything at all. But we seriously are low crime as far as murder and very aggravated crime. It just in's that kind of population. DUIs, drugs, yeah all of that, domestics. Even there I doubt we rank where many do.

However, the rural areas around you and this is no slight, seem to have a LOT of strange and bad happenings and murders, etc. Iti just ain't that way here and I am thankful for it, it gets worse but we are light years behind some areas I guess I'd say. As much as I hate winter, and a lot about the area, I am thankful crime is low and I rarely worry about safety from others. I leave work in the dark to a long walk to where I park and I don't fear. All sorts of things that somewhere else I am sure I would. Of course I am talking two different places and states bu similar as to serious crime I'd say.
 

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