JOSHUA "JJ" VALLOW, TYLEE RYAN, TAMMY DAYBELL, & CHARLES VALLOW: State of Idaho/Arizona vs. Lori GUILTY & Chad Daybell for murder

Tresir · Aug 21, 2023

Guess Who said:
Reimbursed???

Not a reimbursement but an inconvenience payment. They supplied us with bottled water but it would not have been enough for the animals too. The payment will probably cover our water bill for about the next two or three years.

Tresir · Aug 21, 2023

Thinking about it I wonder if Dumbell will plead guilty to conspiracy and blame the actual murders on Axle and Lior.

Guess Who · Aug 21, 2023

Tresir said:
Not a reimbursement but an inconvenience payment. They supplied us with bottled water but it would not have been enough for the animals too. The payment will probably cover our water bill for about the next two or three years.

But still...we just have to deal with it here. They don't care if we are inconvenienced or not.

Tresir · Aug 21, 2023

Cousin Dupree said:
Yeah, nobody here will be able to tell me how close I was.

You were about as close as we are to Jupiter.

Tresir · Aug 21, 2023

Cousin Dupree said:
Yeah, England does a lot of things better, for their citizens, than we can for our citizens.

This was Wales not England. It was Dwr Cymru (Welsh Water). No prepping here.

I just realised why Lior is nervous. These are the capital crimes in Az. She would be guilty of the first 5 at least. And possibly 8 and 9 too.

Would the murder of Charles and the attempted murder of Brandon be federal crimes? Axle crossed state lines and Dumbell was constantly in touch with him by mobile phone while he did so. Also Dumbell and Lior had already started their relationship and conspiracy while she was still living in Az.

"Certain aggravating circumstances constitute capital murder in the State of Arizona:[6]

prior conviction for which a sentence of life imprisonment or death was imposable;
prior serious offense involving the use of threat or violence;
grave risk of death to others;
procurement of murder by payment or promise of payment;
commission of murder for pecuniary gain;
murder committed in an especially heinous, cruel, or depraved manner;
murder committed while in custody;
multiple homicides;
murder of a victim under 15 years of age or of a victim 70 years of age or older; and
murder of a law enforcement officer."

Capital punishment in Arizona - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

GrandmaBear · Aug 21, 2023

Tresir said:
Clipped for focus.

Your post reminds me about Lior's mother stating she had spoken to JJ on the phone after he had disappeared and Melanie G saying she had taken JJ to the movies. Why didn't they get charged with anything?

Also, could Chad conceivably get the death penalty?

No kidding. There are others here that should have been charged for obstruction at least. Or something on that order.

Chad could get the death penalty as it is still on the table for him. You know, they've went awfully silent since Lori's trial or even since they finally got the trials severed haven't they? Prior to that it was constant motions and arguments. All expected they'd argue if the DP was taken off the table for Lori, the same should be done for Chad since they are after all co-conspirators or something along the lines of an argument like that. I've heard of nothing they are doing though nor any pending hearings...?

He doesn't have that many months to go and I'd think Prior would be hard at it... We do know he attended Lori's trial, not sure if it was every day or not. Pretty sure he was not at sentencing but I'm sure he watched along with the rest of us or watched it after...

GrandmaBear · Aug 21, 2023

Tresir said:
Thinking about it I wonder if Dumbell will plead guilty to conspiracy and blame the actual murders on Axle and Lior.

I don't see how he can do that effectively with Tammy's. He was the one "with" her all night and present right through to her removal. Even with JJ and Tylee, there'd still be a LOT to explain away and too much imo for a jury to buy. Doesn't mean they won't try of course. In Lori's trial, per most witnesses, he came off looking I think worse than her. They are going to be dealing with many of those same witnesses. However, I saw Prior go at David and Gibb in Chad's preliminary and in just that short example he had them tripping up and their stories didn't align and imo Mel G showed her true colors, she got defensive with him very quickly. It may be a show in this one, hard to say... Archibald did very little imo that way. I think he went hardest at Audrey didn't he? May well have been due to what Lori wanted him to do or not do but he really didn't do much of anything with any witness from what I heard.

Lori had not a person on her side during trial nor sentencing, and I think it will be much the same for Chad. They are pariahs and their own families don't dare take a hard stance in support of them as it is overwhelmingly obvious what they did and were up to.

Chad's children remain a question and I do think at least Garth may well be called by the prosecution.

I'm also waiting to hear if this one will be live. Not that I'll get to watch or keep up with watching anyhow.

I'm also going to predict right now this man won't testify. His whole demeanor is some silent cuckold, serious, silent, tie wearing man which imo is to portray and impression of someone church going, responsible, a family man, etc. Makes me ill but is also laughable. He is MR. LOINFIRE publicly outed. Mr. Dull also, he couldn't possibly... BUt all the evidence shows oh yes he did.

Kimster · Aug 21, 2023

Tresir said:
Clipped for focus.

Your post reminds me about Lior's mother stating she had spoken to JJ on the phone after he had disappeared and Melanie G saying she had taken JJ to the movies. Why didn't they get charged with anything?

Also, could Chad conceivably get the death penalty?

I don’t remember Melanie G saying she took him to the movies? I remember her saying the last time she saw him was when her and her BF were in Idaho and that was the last known sighting of JJ.

Tresir · Aug 21, 2023

Kimster said:
I don’t remember Melanie G saying she took him to the movies? I remember her saying the last time she saw him was when her and her BF were in Idaho and that was the last known sighting of JJ.

Maybe I remembered that wrong but she would not respond to the police IIRC because Lior had told her not to answer her phone and to go to the movies and take pics of random kids.

Kimster · Aug 21, 2023

Tresir said:
Maybe I remembered that wrong but she would not respond to the police IIRC because Lior had told her not to answer her phone and to go to the movies and take pics of random kids.

That’s what I recall, too. She stalled the search for the kids.

GrandmaBear · Aug 21, 2023

Kimster said:
I don’t remember Melanie G saying she took him to the movies? I remember her saying the last time she saw him was when her and her BF were in Idaho and that was the last known sighting of JJ.

I too wondered about that. Lori wanted her to say she took him to Frozen and to photograph some random kids. I don't know or think she ever did so. But I think she did avoid LE calls and deflected them when she did talk to them, can't quite recall what story she gave. She lied initially I'm fairly sure, just can't recall exactly what she said.

GrandmaBear · Aug 21, 2023

Kimster said:
That’s what I recall, too. She stalled the search for the kids.

Yeah, I should have read further. That's basically what I recall too.

Tresir · Aug 21, 2023

She spent a month lying about it.

"Melanie Gibb testified in Fremont County Court in Idaho that she spent a month lying to authorities about 7-year-old Joshua “JJ” Vallow after Lori Vallow suggested his grandmother was trying to kidnap him.

But Gibb decided to confront the twisted couple over their curious request in a Dec. 8, 2019, phone call that she secretly recorded.

“I wanted to know, remember we talked about JJ going to Kay’s house? And he told me they went there. And now he’s not there. I was wondering what happened?” Gibb asked, according to a transcript of the call published by KSL News Radio."

This court TV link states she told police that she did have JJ but didn't have him any more. She also testifies that the couple were having an affair before Charles was killed.

She will be an important witness in the Az cases, I think.

Melanie Gibb testifies to relationship between Chad and Lori Vallow Daybell

Prosecutors continued their case Thursday in the trial of Lori Vallow Daybell by calling Melanie Gibb to the stand.

www.courttv.com

‘Doomsday’ couple Lori Vallow, Chad Daybell allegedly asked friend to lie to cops

“Doomsday”-obsessed couple Lori Vallow and Chad Daybell instructed a friend to lie to police about the whereabouts of Vallow’s son, claiming he was “safe and happy,” a…

nypost.com

Tresir · Aug 21, 2023

GrandmaBear said:
I don't see how he can do that effectively with Tammy's. He was the one "with" her all night and present right through to her removal. Even with JJ and Tylee, there'd still be a LOT to explain away and too much imo for a jury to buy. Doesn't mean they won't try of course. In Lori's trial, per most witnesses, he came off looking I think worse than her. They are going to be dealing with many of those same witnesses. However, I saw Prior go at David and Gibb in Chad's preliminary and in just that short example he had them tripping up and their stories didn't align and imo Mel G showed her true colors, she got defensive with him very quickly. It may be a show in this one, hard to say... Archibald did very little imo that way. I think he went hardest at Audrey didn't he? May well have been due to what Lori wanted him to do or not do but he really didn't do much of anything with any witness from what I heard.

Lori had not a person on her side during trial nor sentencing, and I think it will be much the same for Chad. They are pariahs and their own families don't dare take a hard stance in support of them as it is overwhelmingly obvious what they did and were up to.

Chad's children remain a question and I do think at least Garth may well be called by the prosecution.

I'm also waiting to hear if this one will be live. Not that I'll get to watch or keep up with watching anyhow.

I'm also going to predict right now this man won't testify. His whole demeanor is some silent cuckold, serious, silent, tie wearing man which imo is to portray and impression of someone church going, responsible, a family man, etc. Makes me ill but is also laughable. He is MR. LOINFIRE publicly outed. Mr. Dull also, he couldn't possibly... BUt all the evidence shows oh yes he did.

Do you remember that on the night Tammy was killed, Axle's phone was shown to be at a nearby church. So I just wondered why that was, if he wasn't involved in Tammy's murder?

GrandmaBear · Aug 21, 2023

Tresir said:
She spent a month lying about it.

"Melanie Gibb testified in Fremont County Court in Idaho that she spent a month lying to authorities about 7-year-old Joshua “JJ” Vallow after Lori Vallow suggested his grandmother was trying to kidnap him.

But Gibb decided to confront the twisted couple over their curious request in a Dec. 8, 2019, phone call that she secretly recorded.

“I wanted to know, remember we talked about JJ going to Kay’s house? And he told me they went there. And now he’s not there. I was wondering what happened?” Gibb asked, according to a transcript of the call published by KSL News Radio."

This court TV link states she told police that she did have JJ but didn't have him any more. She also testifies that the couple were having an affair before Charles was killed.

She will be an important witness in the Az cases, I think.

Melanie Gibb testifies to relationship between Chad and Lori Vallow Daybell

Prosecutors continued their case Thursday in the trial of Lori Vallow Daybell by calling Melanie Gibb to the stand.

www.courttv.com

‘Doomsday’ couple Lori Vallow, Chad Daybell allegedly asked friend to lie to cops

“Doomsday”-obsessed couple Lori Vallow and Chad Daybell instructed a friend to lie to police about the whereabouts of Vallow’s son, claiming he was “safe and happy,” a…

nypost.com

Yeah that all sounds right. I know she did not assist the cops at first or for some time.

GrandmaBear · Aug 21, 2023

Tresir said:
Do you remember that on the night Tammy was killed, Axle's phone was shown to be at a nearby church. So I just wondered why that was, if he wasn't involved in Tammy's murder?

Yeah, was it on the night she died or when the kids were buried. I think it was the night she died. There is sooo much in this case.

Even so, and yeah, I think it hints at Alex helping or being there POSSIBLY, but it doesn't get Chad off the hook as Chad places himself there through the night and finding her and it is Chad who aimed for no autopsy, etc. and gave the fake cause of death and story as to what happened, etc. So Chad could try to blame Alex somehow but it still leaves a lot of issues re Tammy's death where he is concerned. Also, how big is this home... And Alex got in and out without Garth, etc. knowing...? I mean possibly, not saying it didn't happen but...

Maybe Lori sent Alex there to follow through in CASE Chad needed help or couldn't do it OR failed to do it. I think she was ticked she'd taken care of Charles but he hadn't done away with Tammy yet...

I think we are likely never going to know some of these answers. Alex isn't here and Chad and Lori aren't talking... And if they did ever confess one day, etc., it could never be counted on as the truth.

Tresir · Aug 22, 2023

I think it depends on timing of Tammy's death and as there was no post mortem there will not be an exact TOD. Garth was there when Tammy allegedly fell out of bed, but I think that was a ruse for Garth to think it had just happened. I'd like to know if Garth was there when Tammy went to bed ie when did he last see her alive? I hope that comes out at Dumbell's trial.

GrandmaBear · Aug 22, 2023

Tresir said:
I think it depends on timing of Tammy's death and as there was no post mortem there will not be an exact TOD. Garth was there when Tammy allegedly fell out of bed, but I think that was a ruse for Garth to think it had just happened. I'd like to know if Garth was there when Tammy went to bed ie when did he last see her alive? I hope that comes out at Dumbell's trial.

No kidding. I don't want to accuse Garth but he definitely should be a witness to last seeing Tammy, seeing her the next day after dad called him, etc. On the other hand, Mel P should have been one in Lori's case and wasn't. Quite different reasons but both witnesses to things about people who went missing or died. What I guess I mean is both could be uncooperative or hostile witnesses and it's debatable whether to put them on the stand and whether the benefit outweighs the risk or IF needed when considering all that.

The TOD certainly can't be known I agree with the worthless way this was handled, i.e. local LE, coroner, etc. but we do know at least that it can't be like days because she had just been seen and at work healthy, etc. right? But yeah, that window of time that night or even the hours before her death and what Garth last saw with his mom, noted through the day, etc. I'd sure like to know.

I think it's normal to give the kids the benefit of the doubt and I do, but I also stop and think how these two got Alex believing in things and helping and who knows how they possibly could influence younger people or how Chad could have.

One of the relatives, I think maybe a sister of Tammy's OR a wife of Chad's brother mentioned not long ago that Garth and Tammy were very close I believe. Did they both work at the school? Do I have the right "kid" in mind? I think so. But then I'm sure they appeared as a close normal family in many respects, church going, local, and so on but we know it was not exactly that with Chad in the midst of it all, screwing around, having visions from T's grandma that helped control her and what she could and couldn't do or should do. I don't see any way the kids did not see and experience all this through the years or any way it was likely not used on them either. Sorry but putting that all together this is not a normal family but a very odd one although I don't doubt Tammy did her best to make it the opposite and was a great mom and wife BUT one that followed Chad's things and even supported him as an "author" etc. and did as he said grandma told him to have her do.

The only thing we've seen of these kids was one "interview" which was more or less one in which they I'm sure agreed ahead what would be asked and had planned their answers. We have little other than brief glimpses of behavior and that's been at the press or looky-loos. Seeing Garth on the stand under orders to answer questions yeah may be quite different although he may be handled with kid gloves, it is hard to say.

It's very QUIET. We have had nothing but hearing after hearing after hearing throughout these years, and many because Boyce scheduled hearing after hearing to take time to schedule a hearing to have a hearing, and so forth but constant motions, etc. by defense, Prior being much of it. Are they going to wait until the last minute (delays) in this DP case to start hashing out all the trial rules and what will be allowed to be submitted and what will be argued to not admit and so forth...

Personally I don't think he is dealing or will deal so I don't believe it is that and I also don't think the pros. will give much because this is a case where justice and a life sentence x 3 is needed at minimum. But still, it is awfully quiet.

Kimster · Aug 22, 2023

Tresir said:
I think it depends on timing of Tammy's death and as there was no post mortem there will not be an exact TOD. Garth was there when Tammy allegedly fell out of bed, but I think that was a ruse for Garth to think it had just happened. I'd like to know if Garth was there when Tammy went to bed ie when did he last see her alive? I hope that comes out at Dumbell's trial.

Garth being there has always been the puzzling part of it. Did Alex sneak into the house? After Garth went to bed?

Tresir · Aug 22, 2023

I believe that someone said Tammy was stiff as a board or some such so that would be rigor mortis right? That does not set in for some time after death right? It will be interesting to hear the evidence.

JOSHUA "JJ" VALLOW, TYLEE RYAN, TAMMY DAYBELL, & CHARLES VALLOW: State of Idaho/Arizona vs. Lori *GUILTY* & Chad Daybell for murder

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JOSHUA "JJ" VALLOW, TYLEE RYAN, TAMMY DAYBELL, & CHARLES VALLOW: State of Idaho/Arizona vs. Lori GUILTY & Chad Daybell for murder