LIBBY GERMAN & ABBY WILLIAMS: Indiana vs. Richard Allen for 2017 murder of two Delphi girls

On February 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams and Liberty German were discovered near the Monon High Bridge Trail, which is part of the Delphi Historic Trails in Delphi, Indiana, United States, after the young girls had disappeared from the same trail the previous day. The murders have received significant media coverage because a photo and audio recording of an individual believed to be the girls' murderer was found on German's smartphone. Despite the audio and video recordings of the suspect that have been circulated and the more than 26,000 tips that police have received, no arrest in the case has been made.[1][2][3]

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Police have not publicly stated nor released details of how the girls were murdered.[6] As early as February 15, 2017, Indiana State Police began circulating a still image of an individual reportedly seen on the Monon High Bridge Trail near where the two friends were slain; the grainy photograph appearing to capture a Caucasian male, with hands in pockets, walking on the rail bridge, head down, toward the girls.[4] A few days later, the person in the photograph was named the prime suspect in the double-homicide.[5]

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant,[7] though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." It was at this news conference that officials credited the source of the audio and imagery to German's smartphone, and, further, regarded her as a hero for having had the uncanny foresight and fortitude to record the exchange in secret. Police indicated that additional evidence from the phone had been secured, but that they did not release it so as not to "compromise any future trial." By this time, the reward offered in the case was set at $41,000.[5]


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We'll see what the prosecution presents as the confessions. So far they have not inspired a lot of confidence in me. Knowing they have DNA and fingerprints from the scene, but have not announced a match, is hinky to me. If it doesn't match, at the very least it means he had someone else involved. It could also mean he wasn't involved at all.
Okay. Yes I think it is where we are at. Seeing it all and hearing it all. Because no one is going to change opinions short of something proven and big would you agree on that?

While I don't disagree I am very unhappy about a few things it is mostly on LE and lost recordings and stuff and not prosecution HOWEVER you talk about inspiring confidence and the defense has never inspired an iota in me and I don't think they did with their client for some long time either and what he or family has now I'd say is because they've seen false bluff etc. with a big hurrah of b.s.

It is my opinion and it is formed by all seen.

Yes seeing and hearing the confessions, the ones KNOWN to be will tell a lot. And videos. Which should most definitely be admitted. I have't seen any basis to believe the others are even factual but whatever.

I am done with the prints and DNA I said refer to my last post on it.

There is an infinitesimal chance RA wasn't THE killer or one of them. There is also a chance a raccoon and giraffe mated and spawned the earth and here we all are lol.

He puts himself there. Witnesses tie him in and to times. Car does. Bullet does. Too bad he didn't just go shopping with his wife and daughter and as I'e said before what are their accounts of that day?? You are stuck on prints and DNA but there is so much more we don't know.

Were you there? No. Was I? No. Was anyone here? No.

Did anyone else confess? NO.

I am not 100 percent happy with the loss of some things although I doubt any of most of it was important but I really am ticked at the Doolin thing. RA should have been in custody years ago.

Not going to repeat more of the same on the same repeated topic.

Let's get this case tried and all try to realize opinions differ. We also, none of us, are the jurors. If I were I'd not convict until seeing all. But I'm not.
 
So??? That's because they want to be able to lie to you and would have to do real work to figure out why that did it and can't keep reeming an innocent person into saying something stupid. And by saying that you've seen those and also say you've seen plenty of false confessions, which is worse??! You don't immediately become a "better suspect", you just become a better source of frustration to them. There are no real questions they can't ask you with an attorney present. They are just limited to not getting caught not being able to berate you into saying something stupid.

Yeah, I get that. I guess following crimes so much, I'm aware they can't keep you unless they charge you. (The movie "The Usual Suspects" taught me that too.)

If they started berating me, I'd get up and walk. Then I'd call a lawyer. Unfortunately, a lot of people don't know they can do that, and the cops don't tell them they can.

If my sister or brother went missing, I'd want to give them all the information I could to help them solve it. I wouldn't want to wait for a lawyer.
 
So??? That's because they want to be able to lie to you and would have to do real work to figure out why that did it and can't keep reeming an innocent person into saying something stupid. And by saying that you've seen those and also say you've seen plenty of false confessions, which is worse??! You don't immediately become a "better suspect", you just become a better source of frustration to them. There are no real questions they can't ask you with an attorney present. They are just limited to not getting caught not being able to berate you into saying something stupid.
You and I differ on this one a bit. I am as cynical as they come but I am not going to go find, trust or retain some attorney for a thou or more to come with me for what may take ten minutes of my not guilty time because I saw an accident on my way to work or something or don't know why they want to talk to me. And to me that definitely would look guilty. I know I have not done a thing and so I can only figure it is about something else. I well know your opinion on this and maybe as cynical as I am I am too trusting but I'd have absolutely no reason to not talk to cops. If five minutes in I realized it was about me, then yeah, I'd call a full stop.

We agree on much as you know, like bodycams and some other things but I differ on this.

In this case this man was there. In the REad case she was there. Doesn't make them guilty but there is good reason for the get go to want to talk to them. Of course that got screwed up here royally for years.

And perhaps and we all know the theory is lawyering up shouldn't make you look guilty but the actuality is it does. If I have nothing to hide I certainly am not going to do that before I've answered one question and find out what it is about.

Like I say I differ on this. We do agree on a lot of other things though and differ case to case or agree.

Maybe it makes me stupid, I don't know but in my life i've never been in such a spot because I don't DO anything that would put me in such a spot.
 
Laziness is a big part too. We haven't solved this yet. There's a Sheriff's election coming up. This guy says he was there, so he must have done it.
Laziness as to LE you mean? Aren't talking of me are you? I was mopping lol.

I have no idea what each of these sentences refer to.

Sheriff's elections come up every four years here or is it two, I think four. So? I will say politics are interfering in justice on ALL SIDES but don't see that here actually although when it comes to the judge and trying to take her down I'm not so sure...

AS to your last sentence. RA is hemmed in there and his bullet/casing was there. Are you saying I sad only because he was there he must have done it? Because that's not what I said in that one or throughout. My God we have all listened to many voices and thought maybe. I think you and I agreed one or we thought possible. Was it Kline? CAn't recall. NEVER have I heard a dead ringer for it like Allen.

We are not going to agree or sway the other, agree on that?? I even stayed on board with RL to a point as possible. Every case is different.

While it is no reason to convict and is not evidence, the sad fact here is too that although not admissible in trial and instinct kicks in for me here. with this guy wnen put together with all else. Short of a miracle and clear evidence otherwise, nothing is going to shake me with it. This guy is BAD NEWS. And anyone can go at me with that all they want. I know it is not something a jury could convict on or evidence and I sure the heck know I've ignored my instincts at times in life and you know what, every single time to my detriment but when I look back I always had them and they were always right.

So we can debate the same old sh*t til the cows come home but I'm not being swayed by a thing you are stuck on. And yet I take every single thing in but these are the same things being discussed we already know we disagree on.

He is. I don't know if he killed any others but for me he is a serial killer or would have been or is serial killer-ish. I have the same thing with CB. Of course he is charged as an SK with more than a couple of murders. However, I see it here. Not saying he did or didn't but it is who he is. Or would be. Everything he has done in custody is a game. I may even pity his attys as part of me is unsure he has not played them or guilted them. Not always but I wonder at times. I feel he is evil to the bottom of my soul.

I am sharing this because I want to get it across that nothing is going to change my opinions and it is also formed from a lot of facts and looking at a ton of stuff over many years maybe more than some here who act as if they have and not just that instinct so there is absolutely no point in doing the same old arguments with me any longer. I could NOT be a juror in this one. I could probably be and be fair in Read.

Richard Allen killed these girls and he got one sick thrill over it. I believe alone. Possibly not but that is who I think and what I think this man is. And I hope Delphi has stopped too with the tie die shirts so no more pics of someone like RA's daughter can be taken on the same bridge in one so similar to Libby.

There are SOOOO mannnny reasons here my instincts flare I can't even begin to tell all.

However, this is not what I generally share, I also am totally on the actual facts and have looked at all as much or more than anyone over all these long years.

This man is BAD. He has depths and hidden sh*t and I sure hope they found some of it!
 
LOL. I found at least one incomplete sentence. I try not to be that way since with this keyboard and the changing of my words I can't clam no typos ever these days including on self. It is so far better than the last thing I read but still if it was supposed to have some effect on me or sway me, it is having the opposite effect. Through five pages and had 10 comments or questions I can't even recall all of. MOSTLY I fail to see where he was being HELD or DETAINED. I'm not ready to go back to it yet either. I stuff in much Daybell the last two days and that's withouti bring everyone with the bs and other sh*t as usual my days off got wasted over and still are not handled. Not sure how much more of life like this I can take. Taxes werent' done on time now they are but of course I can't get in there as they are closed. So on. Then tomorrow and onward I work and then have to go out of town on days off next week. Argggh. But who am I to talk. I know you ahev some very full days as well and many do. And hard things, all do.
Thank you yeah I have that now. So did he go home that day with wife?
I don't know. I checked and his arrest was in Carroll County two days later.
 
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Why did they in the GILGO case and every other case where a DNA match is what made them arrest a certain person? I can't think of one case where DNA and fingerprint evidence was withheld until trial.
Give it a rest with the DNA/fingerprints. You only have to wait a few more weeks. Personally I think there will be prints on the bullet and some kind of DNA on the clothes or even on the bodies.

In the Gilgo case, the DNA (from hair), is all they had and new techniques are what caught him.
 
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Laziness is a big part too. We haven't solved this yet. There's a Sheriff's election coming up. This guy says he was there, so he must have done it.
I don't think LE are lazy. They had this guy as a suspect all along IMO and needed to get the KK connection/conviction done and dusted first. Once they searched his house and got the bullet match, Bingo.

Cant wait to see/hear the rest of the video/audio of BG.
 
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I don't know. I checked and his arrest was in Carroll County two days later.
well from what I see so far they went in to get their car, he was asked to clear up a few more questions, wife waited for him and none of this sounds to me like some in custody forced interview. of course I haven't read the entire motion but did read about half when I said never again and that's as far as I got, could take or am going. My days off are over and now my future ones are messed up royally and so it ain't going to happen.

like just about all with the defense, I am not seeing any substance to it thus far.

Also, not to be mean, but I thought I was told it was to the point, snappy, succinct or something like that. I think I and some others are reading very different documents lol. However, the other linked it for me so I guess not. Just very different views on them I guess.

For the defense I guess it is shorter than norm and not as wandering, the five I read lol.

Don't know. What I do know is this is getting very old. I feel for the families to no end. I mean I want this over and done with and I think almost all do regardless of what the views are or how they differ. If this doesn't go off as scheduled I don't even know what the result will be other than some huge uproar and fall out. People have had it or at least I know I have. And I believe I see it in most others too. Not just here, but out there.
 
well from what I see so far they went in to get their car, he was asked to clear up a few more questions, wife waited for him and none of this sounds to me like some in custody forced interview. of course I haven't read the entire motion but did read about half when I said never again and that's as far as I got, could take or am going. My days off are over and now my future ones are messed up royally and so it ain't going to happen.

like just about all with the defense, I am not seeing any substance to it thus far.

Also, not to be mean, but I thought I was told it was to the point, snappy, succinct or something like that. I think I and some others are reading very different documents lol. However, the other linked it for me so I guess not. Just very different views on them I guess.

For the defense I guess it is shorter than norm and not as wandering, the five I read lol.

Don't know. What I do know is this is getting very old. I feel for the families to no end. I mean I want this over and done with and I think almost all do regardless of what the views are or how they differ. If this doesn't go off as scheduled I don't even know what the result will be other than some huge uproar and fall out. People have had it or at least I know I have. And I believe I see it in most others too. Not just here, but out there.
I think their last one was nearly 100 pages - I know I managed 42 of them that time.
 
Give it a rest with the DNA/fingerprints. You only have to wait a few more weeks. Personally I think there will be prints on the bullet and some kind of DNA on the clothes or even on the bodies.

In the Gilgo case, the DNA (from hair), is all they had and new techniques are what caught him.
Yeah I thought of Gilgo too. They had to give that in their arrest and such as it is key in what caught him. Other things too of course like vehicle and phone records but the hairs were their lynch pin and I suspect they have more too than we know.

In Delphi, the thing they had to provide and show only was the bullet and him being there, car for the most part. They give no more than they have to. In any.

In some they share every little thing because of it being more circmstantial where they need to have a lot of things add up. Or where there is no body and so forth. Morphew would be an example with a very long AA detailing all the little things that complete the big picture. And they had no body at the time.

I took am done with the DNA/fingerprints. DONE. Trial is basically upon us and so I AWAIT the facts. If defense derails it, I will go find them. Seriously lol. Not. But... I will only find them and drive them back to law school, of course nothing worse. Or to a suggestion of another job or a long vacation or some such. I of course mean nothing worse nor any threat.

We do not even know yet if this one will have cameras. It will be a real unfair thing if not with how invested the public is in this case and how open it needs to be imo for all the sealing and gag order and more.

If it is televised one part of me will regret not being a lady of leisure (that will be the day neer) and being able to watch all, however, I am not sure I could take watching the defense wander all over heck away from points to where a poor judge has to constantly get them back on track but doesn't want to have to look as if she has to do it all day every five minutes or is picking on them lol.

So as much as I want to see it, not sure it is a bad thing if I can't with all of it... I do NOT mean it should not be live though. AND recorded.

I have had what over the week it has been on? the last two days I was able to watch a fair amount of Daybell and one morning days before I think where I watched a bit before work and that day/morning I was glad I think I could not watch more as it irritated me that day.

This one too I want to see and want to see the evidence, questioning, etc. but I suspect defense would irritate me in short order as well. I definitely would try though and watch when could just like Daybell or any I follow. Gibb made it a bit more interesting to follow as she hit on my days off, however, there were things that irritated. One is the constant breaks and side bars and yesterday the early end to the day on top of it but of course she was over by then but doubt it will be the last time she is called. Did Prior get her served lol?

I remain in dislike of her and know she is not telling the full truth of her knowledge and involvement in this cult. Need to stop before I forget which I am starting to that I am not on THAT thread/case.

Anyhow thank God this trial is coming up shortly and going to be over with. HOPEFULLY.
 
I think their last one was nearly 100 pages - I know I managed 42 of them that time.
I almost fainted when I actually read a TWO PAGE ONE. I had to wonder who did it for them lol. ONE. In all this time and case.

Yeah I feel mean saying that but you know what I mean. It is just so ridiculous most of the filings. I could use some sanity. I never did finish Tom's last one and have to work and get moving here and there to go in few hours but can put on while doing so. He will have another one Sunday already if he hasn't had one in between even. He was going to go at least weekly on Sundays as more is filed and gets closer to trial.
 
Has anyone seen the transcript of the full interview between Holeman and RA on the 26th October 2022? If so can you post it on here?

There must be something in there that the D don't like IMO.
 
Has anyone seen the transcript of the full interview between Holeman and RA on the 26th October 2022? If so can you post it on here?

There must be something in there that the D don't like IMO.
Do we have anything like that with anyone? I don't think any interviews or transcripts of such are available are they? Or am I just overdone on cases right now and not thinking right?

Unless something like that was one of the many things linked or attached to like the million page FM by the defense, I doubt it is available. Just my guess. Or maybe if part is referenced in some filing, etc.

For the record I am not in agreement with all the sealing in this case or almost any case for that matter. However, these kinds of things would not necessarily typically be out in any case. Like full interviews. Daybell is a bit odd that way however most of those come from interview at other PDs.

This may surprise some I don't agree with all the sealing.

And I may be thinking wrong overal but I do not think any interview transcripts are out are they in this one? Not cops with RA, not cops with his wife, none.
 
Tom is no legal expert, atty, etc. and I don't always agree with him but as usual he brings me to some sanity and calm lol. He is just so darned logical lol. And when things get wildly away for logic, for me, it messes with equilibrium lol. He doesn't even just calm me in this one, he does no others but just listening to flat out normalcy and logic calms me with all in life somewhat when noting works logically or fairly or right as this world is nuts sometimes. :D

A good move for me to put him on this morning after the last few days and week for that matter.
 
Do we have anything like that with anyone? I don't think any interviews or transcripts of such are available are they? Or am I just overdone on cases right now and not thinking right?

Unless something like that was one of the many things linked or attached to like the million page FM by the defense, I doubt it is available. Just my guess. Or maybe if part is referenced in some filing, etc.

For the record I am not in agreement with all the sealing in this case or almost any case for that matter. However, these kinds of things would not necessarily typically be out in any case. Like full interviews. Daybell is a bit odd that way however most of those come from interview at other PDs.

This may surprise some I don't agree with all the sealing.

And I may be thinking wrong overal but I do not think any interview transcripts are out are they in this one? Not cops with RA, not cops with his wife, none.
In this instance, the D is asking for the whole interview to be struck though, I think. They only showed a very small portion of the interview, so for us, we cannot see it all, right?

What did Tom say about it?
 
In this instance, the D is asking for the whole interview to be struck though, I think. They only showed a very small portion of the interview, so for us, we cannot see it all, right?

What did Tom say about it?
Actually sometimes Tom's question and answer part is better than even the review of defense dumb docs/filings, etc. He did talk of Holman and his deposition and said something about Holman saying ask your client who killed those girls or something like that. Then Tom asked his viewers what Holman knows for evidence that we do not as Homan says flat out he killed these girls, etc. Homan did admit Rick's DNA was not found at the crime scene in his depo but then said ask your client, the killer of these girls or something on that order.

As far as interviews, I don't think we have access to any of that UNLESS referred to or attached to something that was made public.

Tom is also doing the mantra I am, you are, at this point no answers will come and we need to just wait for trial basically on all of it.

We are about three weeks from this trial. There is no decision yet by Gull on cameras or audio. Of course the one I am watching from Tom is from a week ago but haven't heard from others here anything has been changed or decided that way.
 
Doing other things so keep backing it up to listen again. to a question, answer, etc. I probably won't finish it this a.m. either lol but it is the weekend and even though working 10 hour plus days I will finish this one I hope before his new one comes out tomorrow as there is no Daybell testimony or trial on on the weekend etc.
 

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