LIBBY GERMAN & ABBY WILLIAMS: Indiana vs. Richard Allen for 2017 murder of two Delphi girls

On February 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams and Liberty German were discovered near the Monon High Bridge Trail, which is part of the Delphi Historic Trails in Delphi, Indiana, United States, after the young girls had disappeared from the same trail the previous day. The murders have received significant media coverage because a photo and audio recording of an individual believed to be the girls' murderer was found on German's smartphone. Despite the audio and video recordings of the suspect that have been circulated and the more than 26,000 tips that police have received, no arrest in the case has been made.[1][2][3]

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Police have not publicly stated nor released details of how the girls were murdered.[6] As early as February 15, 2017, Indiana State Police began circulating a still image of an individual reportedly seen on the Monon High Bridge Trail near where the two friends were slain; the grainy photograph appearing to capture a Caucasian male, with hands in pockets, walking on the rail bridge, head down, toward the girls.[4] A few days later, the person in the photograph was named the prime suspect in the double-homicide.[5]

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant,[7] though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." It was at this news conference that officials credited the source of the audio and imagery to German's smartphone, and, further, regarded her as a hero for having had the uncanny foresight and fortitude to record the exchange in secret. Police indicated that additional evidence from the phone had been secured, but that they did not release it so as not to "compromise any future trial." By this time, the reward offered in the case was set at $41,000.[5]


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Tom has a new one out where he covers the important parts of all the recent docs. That part doesn't take all that long and then he's into questions and answers, that's the long part almost always. I could stay up just watching the new stuff but I tend to stick it out for all the Q and A as I find it worth it. While it's always got some old stuff, there's much else that isn't.

I'm done discussing most old stuff and also with taking either sides' filings as proven fact although let's be honest, it is defense that puts case stuff in their filings or alternate theories, names and so on.

Again he's more than fair. He makes a crack or two at Gull and isn't thrilled with as none of us are losses of voice and video and those things. He is NOT decided at all.

Anyhow, @Tresir you've probably found it yourself but here it is.

I see absolutely no hint the prosecution or judge will cause any delay in this. Time frames are being set and all is moving.

I AWAIT trial. And hope it isn't derailed.

He also covered some of the transcript and boy talk about sidetracking. If defense does this at trial, imo they will lose the jury.

Just of course done so it gets out imo.

Why are we getting transcripts now...?

Rhetorical. I'll find out elsewhere. Not coming back to check for an answer any time soon. Just dropped to drop Tom's link for sane viewing.

 
Lol. Just a straighforward read of the bulk for the most part. Even I CAN see they didn't inlcude in their motion what they are trying to bring up and argue. Smh. I won't comment on my thoughts on them.

Not much meat to it imo.

 
Just for kicks. :)

I don’t think there was really any DNA or prints at the scene.
TBH they won't need it if they found one of the girls underwear and sock at his house as well as his bullet at the scene plus his confessions. I won't be surprised if he pleads guilty or even puts in an insanity plea.
 
FYI:
(This is not the AM transcript with the Contempt Hearing and the youtuber stuff (haven't seen that transcript out in public yet).)

It's the (much-more-important, IMO) Motion to Dismiss hearing with all the testimony about the possibly exculpatory Rushville investigation line and all the missing interviews and missing discovery... including Click and Vinlanders and Elvis... Worth the full read. Big stuff as soon as pages 7/8. It's been available in the public realm for about 16 hours...

March 18 - MOTION TO DISMISS - Transcript
(afternoon session March 18th)

March 18, 2024 Motion to Dismiss Hearing.pdf

Hey Olenna, welcome back. Where have you been?

I have read the first 42 pages and am not impressed with Mr. B for the defence at all. He doesn't seem to know what he is doing IMO.
 

 
According to Grizzly, the cat being exhumed and had matching hair is a lie. Nancy Grace said it and she's totally clueless about this case.
Grizzly has lifted off the planet or failed it somewhat and not just in this case. Guess she got her following the smart way and now does as she'd like having pulled that off.

I said just up above that I'm not sold on the cat hair thing, doesn't mean it isn't a possibility but not sold. Grizzly may or may not be right are you saying Nancy was the source of ALL the speculation out there because this is speculated by MANY. I don't even recall Nancy that involved at that time in the case when people were talking of things being dug up in the yard and so on. So just asking if Grizz has this straight or if you do from her? Last time I turned her on, couldn't take it for five, did I make it ten minutes? I turned you onto her and she was GOOD then, right now she's just another who has I'd hoped wouldn' then turn and show he real colors and they weren't what they seemed. I give her a chance still once in awhile. And not only on this case. She also is trying to cover every case in the world and I think that says a lot and it fails the ones her followers did subscribe to her for and it goes so beyond what any one person can do and then she's way behind on the ones her viewers have been following with her. She wants to be the biggest and the best I think (well in her mind maybe and of some) but at what cost. Okay.

Back to the point, I don't know if this ALL stemmed from Nancy so I'd like you to make that clear right now. Neighbors saw some things done. DNA has always been questionable about what kind. Is this something Nancy put together is that what you are saying and every person talking of it here and there in the public got it from Nancy Grace only?

I go very back and forth on Nancy. I don't hate her, I don't always love her. But I don't hate her. I will watch her. Grizzly on the other hand right now, not so keen on. So link where Nancy was the first to ever say this or speculate such and not neighbors or anyone through the years of the case and at that time as well? EVERYONE who talks of or wonders about this, the original talk of it stems from Nancy? Again I don't ask from that for you but source and date of when Nancy said it and that's the first it had ever been speculated, chatted about or anyyone else speculated that I sone thing they were doing in the search?

And of course you'd love Grizz at first and even more now. It's easy to call that and figure as much. these past few weeks. She actually called the defense something approaching brilliant. Are you KIDDING ME? Oh don't get me wrong I, I've wondered about their dumb, can't do it act more than once but this was beyond that. But boy she had her viewers in a hyped up frenzy in the first five to ten minutes and the donations coming in.

Again I'm not sold on the cat hair thing but I do think they've got some things/s that scared RA. I haven't excluded it though. Neighbors would see and know more than we do, where they dug, whether they had a cat and more. As far as I've ever seen, I have seen no reason to think such but then LE always did dance on DNA and say it wasn't exactly your typical DNA or a certain type of DNA or however it was put different times. So I think people speculated ANIMAL maybe LONG before Nancy got involved.

Grizzly I could do a separate thread or post on. I still give her a chance on occasion and she FAR from covers only Delphi, she can't even keep up with the original cass all her viewers came to watch her on because of what she is doing. Seen It many times.

Anyhow so NANCY WOW started ALL this in every chat, every blog, all of it? What date?
 
TBH they won't need it if they found one of the girls underwear and sock at his house as well as his bullet at the scene plus his confessions. I won't be surprised if he pleads guilty or even puts in an insanity plea.
If you got to watch Tom's recent ones on the docs, and his highlighting the points in both transcripts and docs, when Gull FINALLY granted the prison med records is it to prosecution, defense asks if what they already have or been told or something like that isn't enough, etc. and prosecution says no, it's not. And then defense says they realized only now or some such, I forget if this is in a filing there is stuff or things they were unaware or never saw or realized before or something like that. NOW Tom didn't note or highlight that but I picked up on the oddity of it. This defense DOES NOT DO THEIR JOB OR they count on something and then when they realize yep about to come out, we better claim we had no idea and perhaps they didn't as they have never reviewed sh*t, who the heck knows.

And then the motion for dismissal?? Tom just read or highlighted the parts of the transcript I think it was in that case and I see you said earlier you noted the same, you don't need to be some legal eagle to see Baldwin's ineptness and failures. Anyone with NO BIAS and even a smidgeon of understanding of court and filings and such would see that. If a game I don't see it totally either I think they truly have never done their job (in some things it is a game and they never expected it to come to this with leaks and such and others and plans), they are INEPT. When I get time in life which will likely be never I'd like someone to refer me to one case these men took all the way to trial and the work they did and filings and so on along the way.

Again TOM didn't highlight all the b.s. in it so much as I sure noticed it. Do they know what SCOPE IS? OF COURSE when the whole point is playing to an audience maybe they do...

They are making a perfect case for RA claiming ineffective counsel one day although I'm sure he wants out and does not want "one day" far in the future to win on appeal plus now he has had the added thing of basically knowing the facts and choosing this counsel anyhow and played into that right to claim such.

My consensus? I think at times they are playing this to the hilt and it is all acting and b.s and planned but overall no. My consensus is they are bozos who count on a bunch of others and games and leaks and covers to take care of it all when they don't do their jobs. Probably never before necesssary to this point or offered like this but yeah they have it now but took it and it bites them in the arse on occasion. They couldn't even VISIT their client. They left him ALONE.

Another thing you were asking about not long ago? Defense was given the entire phone dump or whatever it is and all findings from the FBI whatever branch or whatever. Another filing of theirs was about some have moved on or retired and it's hard to get to talk to or get someone there to help them understand what all they discovered and so on. HEY say what? Do YOUR JOB. You HAVE it. And then they fuzz it up as if...

They have help now of course which I said not too long ago. Other interested PDs or agency, channels, but they always did in the way of MW and you name it but now more. The bigger and more help the bigger the clusterfuck and all I"ve got to say is watch out.

Lord I could go sideways in 100 directions but all I've got to say is I feel sorry for the families, I feel sorry for RA even if he thinks he like has this dream team, doesn't sound as if he necessarily seemed to come across that way at a recent hearing but that's from a reporter reading into what only any of us can.

I'll dial it back though. The motion for dismissal was written and submitted. The hearing on it they tried to argue way beyond the scope never put in it. Nothing at all of substance nor that would work on appeal imo. I have to wonder again did MW not have parents who could pay the money to get his son to pass the bar but B & R did? I read ahead by the way and then came back to comment but that's in response to how inept they came across yet again.

And again they HAVE the tower dump or whatever it is. They are just constantly making excuses for not doing their own job. I've never seen them do it. Not once.

This is all my read not Tom's. He simply pointed out what was in transcripts and documents for the most part.
 
TBH they won't need it if they found one of the girls underwear and sock at his house as well as his bullet at the scene plus his confessions. I won't be surprised if he pleads guilty or even puts in an insanity plea.
I think good luck with insanity, I guess they can try it as a last ditch effort as many do.

I've said it before but will again I think he felt he was done for, saw something so damning in the evidence, called mom and wife and was read to plead/deal/confess. Enter B & R. Like finally right and even then it took them how long...

There are things we don't know, there is at least one if not several. That panicked Allen imo. Whether from the search or phones or what who knows what the packet delivered contained. More than one smoking thing maybe or just one he knew NO ONE was going to be able to get him out of.

That's where I am whatever about the cat hair, could be, and so many think it has to be some kind of DNA or he's innocent. I'm sorry but like you say if a sock matching another of a girls was found that is BEYOND HUGE as is the underwear of one. He shouldn't have ANYTHING like this for any logical explainable reason. If the keepsake bullet was the same make and batch and numbers, HUGE. If the DNA of either of these two girls whether touch or more or prints were found on anything he had or in his car, HUGE. He had no reason or relationship to these girls right or contact? If another phone was found and data retrieved. IF CVS print pics were found of the girls or a flash drive, etc.

Another thing I've noticed with defense is for all they said in the FM of what didn't exist, more recently their mantra has been well we didn't know that, see that, etc. and they asked for more time not long ago because of realized MORE evidence they had not looked at.

Also with what they did say re DNA, tech or SM connections to the girls, etc., ALWAYS looks at what a defense does NOT say. Anything about no photos? Anything about no clothing or souvenirs? Did they respon in it to the found "kept" bullet?

How about this one??!!! Did they SAY Kathy Allen SAID RA was with her ALL day?!!! They went to lunch, he helped her do a pain touch up and then while was napping in front of the TV she started making them dinner? Alibi? Is there one? WAs she even home or their daughter?

Again there is so much we don't know that is going to come forward and yet we assume we know it all. I don't, could be wrong, but I will include myself in on that one.

And the CONFESSIONS. Anyone else hard them? Have they leaked? I don't think so. And cell video after getting evidence and more in paperwork...
 
Hey Olenna, welcome back. Where have you been?

I have read the first 42 pages and am not impressed with Mr. B for the defence at all. He doesn't seem to know what he is doing IMO.
That was pretty much my take and I knew nothing much of it before, Tom read the gist of it and didn't opine with bias and when he does he sends it both ways and that's what any of most of us could see.

Funny how R always seems to be a bit protected with B the inept problem child, leaker, doesn't know security, etc. Didn't they try to use that when Gull went to make them make a choice after. R claimed like WHAT did HE DO, and let him stay on, why is he facing this, etc., etc. This is where things seem a plan. Not a well planned plan that no one can see through but to be fair a great many have apparently fallen for... They keep R pretty much clean... Intentionally I'd say...

If one goes under the bus, fine, other wasn't near...but not so good at it that it isn't obvious. To some anyhow. It's as obvious as most of us would know good cop/bad cop routine to know by now in life even if NEVER in trouble...
 
According to Grizzly. It's been said that RA checked himself into rehab right after the murders. If true (I've never heard this before) It's one of those things that makes you go hmmmm...
I've heard that way back when, hadn't we all? of course it was probably before we were talking of this crime on this site. But think it's been brought up. For alcohol. I thought it convenient just like Murdaugh for opioids both in aftermaths when they likely feared they were going to be caught and as a cover, possible excuse.

It's only a hmm because of guilt. Just like Hollywood celebs after a DUI or assault. It's the first thing they do...
 
According to Grizzly. It's been said that RA checked himself into rehab right after the murders. If true (I've never heard this before) It's one of those things that makes you go hmmmm...
I've known of that for ages, haven't we all? Just like Murdaugh with opiods, or Hollywood celebs after a DUI or assault or domestic. It's a cover and an excuse if needed.

You can cite Grizz all you want who knew nothing of most any of these cases back in the day or even one or two years ago. Is every post now going to be according to Grizzly? No offense but she's no authority. Shows imho are to not cite someone who is not an authority as an authority but to mention info that comes out in them if true and ingest it oneself and put it in there along with other info or facts and see where it leads or leaves you. Imo Grizzly has lost her bearings or is showing her true ones now and on top of it trying to cover every single case instead of being on top of the ones her viewers first followed her for and due to who pays her and asks her to go off the others. Watch for that and you'll notice it.

She's written some books. My guess is you can buy them and maybe go spend your time reading them.

But back to the rehab. My opinion way back when I heard this was yes of course he did, he was absolutely panicked he was going to be arrested and caught. Too freaking bad he wasn't. And there was that incident where I can only guess they were cut a break when help was called for.

Yet isn't it interesting, he had to go for major checked in rehab but in later photos and such there he is drinking at the local bar in front of posters of BG with his wife. I guess it didn't work. The rehab I mean....
 
Two officers disagreed that the Odinism thing had nothing to do with it. They're both dead. One was shot and killed. There are also FBI agents who believe this theory should be researched further.
Lol I am miffed you lost us the eyeroll.

Can you please remove Allen and PLACE an ODINIST there?

How old are all of these you talk of and what were their leanings and ways in life? Did they grow up on things like CSI and other shows? Or go through a police or fed academy or college if any in the last few decades?

I can sidetrack into some stories about such.

You really need some Tom to bring you to earth. But then it wouldn't be the ones you take to that go with what you want to go to. IMO OF COURSE. I think he could even ground you if you watch enough. Back on earth.

Allen's rehab has been known about or heard of since almost day one. Although honestly I don't think there is a single OFFICIAL source that verifies it and so it's up there with the cat hair. Is Grizz just discovering this too?

Have a good day. I hope to see this thing tried in May. I'd hope we all have that in common at least.
 
My God, why did I read that. I almost quit many times and when I found myself in some wandering thing about geofencing where Baldwin actually ran out of letters in the alphabet I had to wonder what the HE77 kind of law school this man attended. It started my day off wrong and irritated me to no end and it is laughable Gull would draft or sign anything that is all over the place, irrelevant, the length again of Gone With the Wind and rambling. I won't even start on its failures and lies and how they are bringing in and tying things that don't belong in it. Repetitive on top of it with things like the prrosector requesting they be kicked off the case to continually drill that in just as one example. They whine about no time after getting a lot of discovery and then being kicked off the case and so no time and no access then and now they are under time constraints but they demanded speedy trial. I could go on and on but it's not worth it because the entire thing is ridiculous yet again. If I had a highlighter there may have been two possibly relevant things in that whole document and certainly nothing to grant a Frank's hearing.

I mean this without sarcasm and with true feeling, Baldwin needs to go back and take the class on drafting legal documents with brevity when possible, intent, facts and that are solidly written and not all over the place. If you run out of letters in the alpabet you've went on too long times ten and that's just ONE PART.

To be fair maybe he has to go on and on as there just isn't enough that is factually relevant but even if there was I believe he'd go on like this. For all his talk of no time, he spends hours on a mess like this?!

I fully see where RA could have an ineffective counsel claim however he now intentionally and fully informed picked these attorneys.

Gull would never write anything like that and his buffoon assumption that she would or that this is something a judge would ever write or sign is , I don't even know what to call it... This man has something wrong with him. Ii'm serious. No good attorney would write something like this.

I won't even touch on being helpful and nice enough to write a rambling ridiculous order for the judge so she doesn't have to ferret out the facts, do the work and write her own order.

I don't think anything is going to get me to read another thing of theirs ever. I'll stick with Tom, poor him having to read all of them for the rest of us. He truly saves my sanity when having read this I know what he must be going through and I couldn't do any more of them.

On top of it I don't know if it was the program it opened in, my computer or they simply also use something and fail to number their pages but there were no page numbers that I could see so I never had any idea how long it was or if I was almost through it when I almost stopped many times as it was never-never never-never neverending ending ending ending. Miimicking Baldwin's repetitiveness and neverending style.

Maybe I could have turned page numbering on I have no idea but all I know is it didn't open with or have any. I started it last night and gave up and finished the morning and I still don't know why. What a way to start a work day and with no coffee having hit yet.

You know, they know what a court of appeals is for. Personally I think it's time they start preparing for trial that they asked be speedy. If he has time to sit down for hours and try to now incorporate geofencing into the Frank's motion which still is off another tangent in this document all together and sideways, then they must be fully prepped for trial. If any attorney who has the legal document writing down pat went in this and took out all that should be taken out, there'd be little left.

This attorney would overflood and try the patience of ANY judge past sanity. They did me just with this single document. It would make it seem they have all the time in the world but intend to leave the judge and opposing counsel with none just to read through and try to even make any sensible order of their points or how they relate if by the time one is done reading you can even go back and order such a jumble or have the wherewithal to do so.

I'm not being intentionally over the top. This is what I see and I mean every word of it without sarcasm for the most part. If he intends to continue in his profession he absolutely needs to do a class on this or do one over. In listening to Tom cover the transcript or was it what was in a filing, I forget, but they wandered similar in a recent hearing, I think the contempt one or motion to dismiss, I forget but they went way off point just as their filings do. If left unchecked a trial would last ten years and I mean JUST the trial itself. Jurors would die and turn gray while in their jury seats. Sarcasm is intended there but the point is a true one. They don't know how to be succinct and to the point. Nor do I, but I am NOT an attorney. For the very fact I can be the same way with writing when I am overloaded with too many thoughts, I can see it in him clearly.

One of my daughters tried to help me once and show me what they both learned in college on how to write something short, to the point and impactful, starting with like three bullet points or some such. It was simple and effective but didn't work for me. With our family's VIS, she wrote a beautiful short saying a ton in one page statement I could never match. So did a few others. Mine was long and rambling wanting to get every point in. I tried and made myself physically sick seriously for weeks ahead of sentencing. I felt unready when it came and couldn't fix it fully and was highly stressed when my turn. There's a lot more to it than that but I'm just saying Baldwin has a problem that I recognize.

I could be an attorney for every reason in the world and pass all the courses and pass the bar had I wanted to or tried I am sure just like any of the all of us intelligent people here. But that trait and problem would fail me. I'd never be able to e concise and stick to the point in the courtroom talking nor in a filing. Impact would be lost as would the point, jurors and judge and opposing counsel would be frustrated and would lose patience or quit paying attention, etc.

That's these two attorneys and It is certainly Baldwin.

However, it remains that he's just trying to make something where there is noting perhaps and that's when you create a blizzard of sh*t to sift through when there's no meat.

I don't know but I've wasted now a couple of hours on this of my short hours before a long work day and so i'm more irritated with him than ever lol.

But I did read it. And regret every moment wasted.
 

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