Diving Teams that Search for the Missing (Both Professional and Amateur)

[Kimster]

Diving to search for missing people can be a challenge, and also dangerous! This thread is for general discussion about underwater search and rescue teams.

"Underwater searches are procedures to find a known or suspected target object or objects in a specified search area under water. They may be carried out underwater by divers, manned submersibles, remotely operated underwater vehicles, or autonomous underwater vehicles, or from the surface by other agents, including surface vessels, aircraft and cadaver dogs.

A search method attempts to provide full coverage of the search area. This is greatly influenced by the width of the sweep, which largely depends on the method used to detect the target. For divers in conditions of zero visibility, this is as far as the diver can feel with their hands while proceeding along the pattern. When visibility is better, it depends on the distance at which the target can be seen from the pattern, or detected by sonar or magnetic field anomalies. In all cases, the search pattern should completely cover the search area without excessive redundancy or missed areas. Overlap is needed to compensate for inaccuracy and sensor error, and may be necessary to avoid gaps in some patterns."

Underwater searches - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Kimster]

Search and recovery teams need to find their target in a quick and safe manner. Whether looking for a lost victim, vehicle or other evidence, it is imperative that investigations be conducted as efficiently as possible.



Recovery teams typically plan their search area using the last known location and eye witness reports. Once the search area has been determined, search and rescue teams sweep the area looking for the target.


Whether using a side scan sonar on their boat or a sonar-equipped remotely operated vehicle(ROV), methodical search patterns are important to a thorough search. There are many common patterns that search and recovery teams use to ensure that they are searching an area completely - without missing any key spots. Using a pattern allows the team to accurately track where they have and haven’t searched.


Once the target has been identified, recovery teams can safely and respectfully retrieve the victim or evidence. Using an ROV, rescue divers or a combination of both, the team can complete the recovery.

More at link-------------> Underwater Search and Rescue: Patterns You Should Know

 

[Guess Who]

It was a non LE organization the family hired that found Toni Anderson here, months after going into the water and after a failed LE search.

 

[Kimster]

It was a non LE organization the family hired that found Toni Anderson here, months after going into the water and after a failed LE search.

The same in the Kiely Rodni case. But, when that's all you do, it's easier to know the signs. They could tell it was a newer vehicle by looking at the radar and then the way the magnet attached to it. When I looked at the radar in that case, I couldn't see a thing! In other cases I could tell it was a car or something similar.

 

[GrandmaBear]

When I first became aware of AWP a few years back, I watched quite a few of their videos. It isn't really the kind of thing I prefer to watch, the best part is seeing answers found for the family if they located the car of someone missing. But it was interesting to see how it is done and more and I watched several but there came a point with some of them as new cases came where I didn't like a few things I saw.

I will always say what they do is a great thing and it is and it is free to the families and is a very needed service. I can't argue that.

There were then though some things I didn't like and in the Rodni case, one cannot take away from the fact LE couldn't find her in the same body of water AWP did. Awesome job. However, people were mostly starting to accept it was likely an accident finally after the car was found and it was AWP that brought back and took over the top the foul play thing.

They can do as they like but I think imo they'd be wise to do as they do and stay out of that kind of hype and attention. They have had other cases where LE wasn't willing to work with them in the past or happy to see them and such doesn't help that cause all this time later either. They went on to do the full circuit of Youtube shows on Rodni and it just increased it even more.

Back in the old shows, I saw a few things I didn't think much of and even doubted but I don't want to knock them fully or more, it is just my opinion but more than a few share it, but again, what they do to provide answers for people with missing loved ones is awesome so I'll leave it at that.

 

[Kimster]

When I first became aware of AWP a few years back, I watched quite a few of their videos. It isn't really the kind of thing I prefer to watch, the best part is seeing answers found for the family if they located the car of someone missing. But it was interesting to see how it is done and more and I watched several but there came a point with some of them as new cases came where I didn't like a few things I saw.

I will always say what they do is a great thing and it is and it is free to the families and is a very needed service. I can't argue that.

There were then though some things I didn't like and in the Rodni case, one cannot take away from the fact LE couldn't find her in the same body of water AWP did. Awesome job. However, people were mostly starting to accept it was likely an accident finally after the car was found and it was AWP that brought back and took over the top the foul play thing.

They can do as they like but I think imo they'd be wise to do as they do and stay out of that kind of hype and attention. They have had other cases where LE wasn't willing to work with them in the past or happy to see them and such doesn't help that cause all this time later either. They went on to do the full circuit of Youtube shows on Rodni and it just increased it even more.

Back in the old shows, I saw a few things I didn't think much of and even doubted but I don't want to knock them fully or more, it is just my opinion but more than a few share it, but again, what they do to provide answers for people with missing loved ones is awesome so I'll leave it at that.

I found that in these kinds of cases, or any criminal case or searching field, there’s egos involved. Even when I went on a search myself, I met people with egos. Sometimes I wonder if egos are needed to work in dangerous situations? It didn’t take away from the fact that they had big hearts at the same time.Being a law enforcement officer or diving to recover bodies, or any of that sort of thing, is definitely not in my wheelhouse. I’d be scared to death!

I agree with you though, it doesn’t always bode well with the public. They need to keep a more humble persona.

 

[GrandmaBear]

I found that in these kinds of cases, or any criminal case or searching field, there’s egos involved. Even when I went on a search myself, I met people with egos. Sometimes I wonder if egos are needed to work in dangerous situations? It didn’t take away from the fact that they had big hearts at the same time.Being a law enforcement officer or diving to recover bodies, or any of that sort of thing, is definitely not in my wheelhouse. I’d be scared to death!

I agree with you though, it doesn’t always bode well with the public. They need to keep a more humble persona.

That's close to what I mean in a nutshell. Ego is definitely a short and good explanation for it. I would add simply that attention seeking while seeming or attempting to act as if not seeking it, a bit of a glory hound thing and having constant issues or breakdowns etc. to bring in money is what I was seeing and still see at times. Liking the limelight.

BUT they do a good thing and the more that know about them the better and I get that but I think maybe staying out of what they did here would be a good idea. They bring in a ton of money and donations, make no mistake about it. They do provide a great and free service to families though but make no mistake about it, I think they make handsome money doing what they do or at least someone does.

I feel the hype though in Rodni was created and I will go so far as to say I wonder about the tow truck driver who connected with them and helped start it all. I felt like I was watching something planned even almost choreographed. Planned fairly smart in a way but it just was toooooooooooo something.

But I will go back to what I keep saying and that is that what they do is awesome and they are definitely very skilled at it and they provide answers for many.

Yah, I think there is definitely ego.

 

[Guess Who]

I found that in these kinds of cases, or any criminal case or searching field, there’s egos involved. Even when I went on a search myself, I met people with egos. Sometimes I wonder if egos are needed to work in dangerous situations? It didn’t take away from the fact that they had big hearts at the same time.Being a law enforcement officer or diving to recover bodies, or any of that sort of thing, is definitely not in my wheelhouse. I’d be scared to death!

I agree with you though, it doesn’t always bode well with the public. They need to keep a more humble persona.

Went through the 'ego' thing here with a local case. Local LE were not giving FBI the info they needed and it was all a huge pizzing match. Then we add the media and wow, too much drama and the important things getting off track due to egos.

 

[GrandmaBear]

Went through the 'ego' thing here with a local case. Local LE were not giving FBI the info they needed and it was all a huge pizzing match. Then we add the media and wow, too much drama and the important things getting off track due to egos.

Yeah it seems to be big in LE for one. And dare I say it--with men. If one thinks about it, guys who want power and sway and such are going to be attracted to positions like LE and then it just seems to be competitive by nature. I don't have the right words but who solves it, who does the best, who is the best, whose "turf" is it and who has the right? I do think it takes a bit of that in such types to work such jobs but it goes way too far sometimes. And I do think esteem, ego, power and glory, reputation in the community all play into it. And more with some than others. I like to think or used to like to think people become cops or judges etc. because they CARE that much about society and right and wrong and want to make a difference. I was disillusioned with that too many times a long, long time ago. It isn't the reason at all for many.

Can I ask what case or type of case? If the FBI and media was involved, it can't be too minor of a case. Or can you not talk about it?

 

[GrandmaBear]

Yes what they do is wonderful and I'm sure they get into it and involved and invested in some cases. Never said otherwise.

A few years back there was talk of doing a TV show that would bring some control and say by I forget a network. Not all on the team were in agreement with taking that route. Then there is the breakup that occurred and what was very tactfully said but was said. And of course just things one can see before even knowing that at the time.

They provide a great service for no cost. NO DOUBT ABOUT IT.

Yet here we are with Kiely's mother very unhappy with the team that found her daughter. I'm guessing there is a reason. And they hyped the foul play thing and did the YT circuit.

Just not sure that sensationalistic thing with real grieving families and fresh crimes particularly is the best thing.

But I am not claiming to know. Just going by what I have seen even back when...

 

[Guess Who]

Yes what they do is wonderful and I'm sure they get into it and involved and invested in some cases. Never said otherwise.

A few years back there was talk of doing a TV show that would bring some control and say by I forget a network. Not all on the team were in agreement with taking that route. Then there is the breakup that occurred and what was very tactfully said but was said. And of course just things one can see before even knowing that at the time.

They provide a great service for no cost. NO DOUBT ABOUT IT.

Yet here we are with Kiely's mother very unhappy with the team that found her daughter. I'm guessing there is a reason. And they hyped the foul play thing and did the YT circuit.

Just not sure that sensationalistic thing with real grieving families and fresh crimes particularly is the best thing.

But I am not claiming to know. Just going by what I have seen even back when...

Sometimes it would be better to stay humble. Do the job and move along without creating needless drama.

 

[GrandmaBear]

Sometimes it would be better to stay humble. Do the job and move along without creating needless drama.

They maybe will do so after this as I think they received some flak about it, more than we know... But I've seen them do it before... Humble for awhile and then make a bit to do like this...

Just an opinion but yeah, if they want to do the glory/sensational side of it, they aren't going to be taken as seriously or liked as much by LE imo, I think they need to make that choice.

Of course most member of the public glom onto them as if they can do no wrong just as some do with LE. In Rodni seemed to me it was the public who got them coming into the case. It wasn't a day before people started saying in chats everywhere LE needs to get AWP in there and then I think people started bombarding them about it. And they couldn't resist the attention.

It is great they came and found her though don't get me wrong. But the mom sure wasn't happy with them and there has to be some reason for that.

On another note, I still am not happy with the lack of answers in that case. They have never explained more than a few things and I sure hope they intend to do so at some point. LE I mean. It is not okay imo to just close that case without doing so.

I don't care if it is a party area or even if parents are okay with their children drinking and driving and drugging underage or even if the cops turn a blind eye, there was a death here and illegal activity and minors provided with alcohol and drugs. And that is chargeable. It also is still beyond belief to me that no one witnessed this or knew of it. And finally it sounds as if not much was found in her system was it? I haven't had the time to totally check all that out, just heard the bare minimum.

Back to AWP, they do have videos showing people how to get out of a submerged or sinking car, etc. And they find people. I don't want to take away from the good they do at all. The other side of it though I don't think they handle as well as they could. If they want to have a TV show and be TV and YT stars that chooses to sensationalize then I for one am not going to take them as seriously as like how the members of Equusearch handle themselves and their organization. They come on as guests in some cases on some YT shows but they don't get all sensationalistic on the details and add to the conspiracy thoughts etc. Everyone of them I've seen handle themselves maturely and responsibly while offering info and insight on searching, etc.

 

[Kimster]

The criminal indictment against Jared Leisek has a thread here: Jared Leiden from AWP Indicted for Charges Against Children

 

[Kimster]

Here’s another diving team without all the fanfare.

 

[Guess Who]

this is the dive team that found Toni Anderson. Another that seems to do it without fanfare. Sad news to report though.

Team Watters Sonar – Specialists in water search and recovery using side image sonar equipment.

 

[Kimster]

this is the dive team that found Toni Anderson. Another that seems to do it without fanfare. Sad news to report though.

Team Watters Sonar – Specialists in water search and recovery using side image sonar equipment.

I’ll have to watch! Thanks!

 

[Kimster]

The criminal indictment against Jared Leisek has a thread here: Jared Leiden from AWP Indicted for Charges Against Children

Prior to the news coming out about its owner, we had video links and kudos going out to AWP on this thread. You can see why they were removed at my link in the quote above.

There were a lot of innocent men and women who worked hard with AWP to recover people from the water, and many thankful families. We don't want to take away from anyone in these cases, but for the time being, we aren't going to use this thread to discuss AWP. More detailed explanations as to why are being discussed in the AWP thread.

This thread is specifically for dive teams OTHER than AWP from this point forward. Thank you for understanding!