Epstein, Maxwell et al: exposed in child sex trafficking

Do we have a Jefferey Epstein thread?

Jeffrey Epstein Confidante Ghislaine Maxwell Arrested on Sex Abuse Charges

Ghislaine Maxwell, the British socialite and heiress who became a confidante of disgraced financier Jeffrey Epstein and was later implicated in his alleged sexual crimes, has been arrested by the FBI. She was arrested in Bradford, New Hampshire, around 8:30 a.m. Thursday on charges she conspired...

www.nbcnewyork.com

 

[kdg411]

Because Andrew is a second party. What party do you think he is? Epstein is one of the first parties and presumably other enablers are as well, even Guiffre herself is a first party therefore. People like Andrew and Dershowitz would be second parties who are being sued, as they are being accused and are friends or business acquaintances of the first parties. That is how I see it. However, the jurisdiction could just be Florida and I am not sure if she is accusing him of abuse in Florida, but UK, NY, and VI, I believe. NM, when she was 18, has not been mentioned but was in her memoirs.

I don't believe this loophole will work because it is not to be used by any other person than Jeffrey Epstein.

not intended to be used by any other person nor be admissible in any proceeding or case against or involving Jeffrey Epstein, either civil or criminal.

As for jurisdiction, that's a great question. Is this agreement only enforceable in Florida? I have no idea. Hopefully this Judge will enlighten us all soon.

 

[Tresir]

I don't believe this loophole will work because it is not to be used by any other person than Jeffrey Epstein.

not intended to be used by any other person nor be admissible in any proceeding or case against or involving Jeffrey Epstein, either civil or criminal.

As for jurisdiction, that's a great question. Is this agreement only enforceable in Florida? I have no idea. Hopefully this Judge will enlighten us all soon.

I think that means not intended by any other person except first and second parties. Otherwise, why even mention first and second parties ?

You were asking about Prince Andrew and MSM in UK. This article by Vanity Fair is a really accurate history of his fall from grace as the second in line to the throne at one time and a Falklands War hero, to what we see today. It accurately captures how our tabloids operate and why I believe if he had danced with Roberts at Tramp's, there would be a picture. The article is enlightening and entertaining.

“Epstein Had a Precise Plan”: How the Only Known Photo of Prince Andrew and the Pedophile Happened

On a freezing weekend in December 2010, a team of tabloid investigators tailed the queen’s favorite son through New York City—and traced him to the mansion of a convicted sex criminal. A decade later, those present still want to know what each man wanted from the other.

www.vanityfair.com

 

[Tresir]

Here is a bit more info on the two guards who were supposed to be monitoring Epstein the night he died.

Jeffrey Epstein: Charges dropped against prison guards who falsified records

The pair admitted falsifying records to show they had monitored Epstein on the night of his death.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[kdg411]

I think that means not intended by any other person except first and second parties. Otherwise, why even mention first and second parties ?

You were asking about Prince Andrew and MSM in UK. This article by Vanity Fair is a really accurate history of his fall from grace as the second in line to the throne at one time and a Falklands War hero, to what we see today. It accurately captures how our tabloids operate and why I believe if he had danced with Roberts at Tramp's, there would be a picture. The article is enlightening and entertaining.

“Epstein Had a Precise Plan”: How the Only Known Photo of Prince Andrew and the Pedophile Happened

On a freezing weekend in December 2010, a team of tabloid investigators tailed the queen’s favorite son through New York City—and traced him to the mansion of a convicted sex criminal. A decade later, those present still want to know what each man wanted from the other.

www.vanityfair.com

Wow! So, Randy Andy has a not so nice reputation in the media. Very interesting.

How would Virginia Giuffre have known anything about a nightclub called Tramp's though? She wasn't a sophisticated, well-educated or well-traveled young woman. The paparazzi are rather obnoxious wouldn't you say? Is it possible that Andrew could have gone to this club with Giuffre, Epstein & Maxwell in 2001 and not have been noticed? This was well before Epstein was a convicted sex offender.

 

[Tresir]

Wow! So, Randy Andy has a not so nice reputation in the media. Very interesting.

How would Virginia Giuffre have known anything about a nightclub called Tramp's though? She wasn't a sophisticated, well-educated or well-traveled young woman. The paparazzi are rather obnoxious wouldn't you say? Is it possible that Andrew could have gone to this club with Giuffre, Epstein & Maxwell in 2001 and not have been noticed? This was well before Epstein was a convicted sex offender.

I doubt he goes anywhere unnoticed. Also, everyone knows Tramp's. The goings on were/are constantly reported by the media. They would lie in wait to get pics when celebrities left inebriated at 5 a.m.
She was definitely there because there are other pics of her in the same clothes that night. But no pics of Andrew that night at Tramps have ever surfaced in twenty years, which is strange as media follow him everywhere. His security would have been with him also I guess. Remember the media and how they hounded Princess Diana to her death? This was only 4 years after that event. Andrew and Fergie were also constantly in the press. That is how they got pics of the Duchess with another man.
Virginia was well travelled for a 17 year old. NY, London, the Virgin Islands, New Mexico and Florida were already under her belt by that time. Then in May she was in the South of France.

 

[Tresir]

Just found this from 2015 in case it is relevant. This was in Florida I believe and was in 2015.

Judge orders Prince Andrew sex allegations struck from court record

Virginia Roberts’s accusations about Andrew ordered to be struck from the record as judge denied her attempt to join a lawsuit against Jeffrey Epstein

www.theguardian.com

So this was a lawsuit against the government on behalf of all victims for the lenient plea deal given to Epstein. Does anyone know what the outcome of this was?

I have found this which clarifies what happened to this lawsuit. I think I am getting to understand how things have played out. After Epstein's death, the victims gave impact statements in court, I believe, and his executors set up the compensation deals. So in reality, these individual prosecutions should not happen, as they have already received compensation, from Epsteins estate.

Jeffrey Epstein's alleged accomplices are protected from federal charges in Florida

Alleged accomplices of Jeffrey Epstein cannot be federally prosecuted in Florida, after a U.S. District Judge ruled Monday to keep a secret non-prosecution agreement intact.

www.wptv.com

 

[kdg411]

Just found this from 2015 in case it is relevant. This was in Florida I believe and was in 2015.

Judge orders Prince Andrew sex allegations struck from court record

Virginia Roberts’s accusations about Andrew ordered to be struck from the record as judge denied her attempt to join a lawsuit against Jeffrey Epstein

www.theguardian.com

So this was a lawsuit against the government on behalf of all victims for the lenient plea deal given to Epstein. Does anyone know what the outcome of this was?

I have found this which clarifies what happened to this lawsuit. I think I am getting to understand how things have played out. After Epstein's death, the victims gave impact statements in court, I believe, and his executors set up the compensation deals. So in reality, these individual prosecutions should not happen, as they have already received compensation, from Epsteins estate.

Jeffrey Epstein's alleged accomplices are protected from federal charges in Florida

Alleged accomplices of Jeffrey Epstein cannot be federally prosecuted in Florida, after a U.S. District Judge ruled Monday to keep a secret non-prosecution agreement intact.

www.wptv.com

In the 1st article Virginia was trying to join the CVRA violation that was started by Courtney Wild. It's now headed to the Supreme Court to determine if the defendants rights were indeed violated by this agreement. No final decision has been made by our highest court.

The girls (victims) that received compensation in the 2008 deal are different from those who made claims to the Jeffrey Epstein Victims Fund.

 

[Tresir]

In the 1st article Virginia was trying to join the CVRA violation that was started by Courtney Wild. It's now headed to the Supreme Court to determine if the defendants rights were indeed violated by this agreement. No final decision has been made by our highest court.

The girls (victims) that received compensation in the 2008 deal are different from those who made claims to the Jeffrey Epstein Victims Fund.

Ah right. Disgraceful how long that is taking. How do we know that they are different with a lot of them called Jane Doe? Did Virginia get both the $500k from Epstein as well as comp from the Epstein fund? Is there a list somewhere, or is it confidential?

 

[Tresir]

Latest article mentions Guiffre lawyers have 4 or 5 or 6 witnesses who put them together but then only name two. "Putting them together" is not evidence of rape/sexual abuse/battery.

David Boies: 'Six witness place Duke and Virginia Roberts together'

David Boies, a lawyer representing Virginia Giuffre, claimed that the witnesses include Florida hairdresser Johanna Sjoberg; and Steve Scully, who worked for paedophile Jeffrey Epstein.

www.dailymail.co.uk

This is a witness from the VI.

Who is Steve Scully and what evidence does he claim against Prince Andrew?

STEVE Scully is a former employee of paedophile Jeffery Epstein who alleges he saw Prince Andrew grope Virginia Roberts on a private island. But who is he and what evidence does he supposedly have …

www.thesun.co.uk

This lists several witnesses including one witness of the puppet incident in NY.

Seven witnesses who could link Andrew to Virginia, Epstein and Ghislaine

SEVEN key witnesses could link Prince Andrew to his rape accuser Virginia Roberts Giuffre – as well as Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell. The Duke of York, 61, is facing a lawsuit filed b…

www.thesun.co.uk

 

[kdg411]

Ah right. Disgraceful how long that is taking. How do we know that they are different with a lot of them called Jane Doe? Did Virginia get both the $500k from Epstein as well as comp from the Epstein fund? Is there a list somewhere, or is it confidential?

As far as the victims in the 2008 case, the settlement was with approximately 20 girls only identified under seal per Federal court records. Once they agreed to the settlement they weren't eligible for the Epstein Victim Fund because they were bound by the terms that stated they could not sue him in civil court regarding the charges.

And Virginia, I have no idea if she settled with the Epstein Victim fund. It would be interesting to know if she did. The names of those women are only known by the administrator of that trust. Maxwell's attorney had submit a court ordered subpoena to that trust in her defense case. Those names have been kept strictly confidential.

 

[Tresir]

Interview with Carolyn's mother Dorothy. Carolyn received $2.6m from the Epstein fund. Interesting to hear her account and to know she was due to give evidence but the prosecution did not use her in the end. It is also interesting to read the replies and note the comments. Not many are sympathetic. She was taken out of school age 14, when they moved from NY to Palm Beach and apparently never went back to school. Reminds me of Roberts (who recruited Carolyn) being a runaway at age 13 and getting picked up off the street by a paedophile and exploited, prior to working at Mar a Lago.

Mother of Maxwell victim asks the questions that have haunted her

Carolyn (pictured) became a human sex toy, her body violated in the most appalling ways imaginable by Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell, as they drew her in to a 'pyramid scheme of abuse'.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Tresir]

So both Carolyn and Jane were Florida residents as was Virginia. So isn't it likely that they were part of this Florida plea deal and subsequent agreement that has just been released? Also, does this also protect Maxwell? If so, could this be grounds for appeal?

 

[Tresir]

One of the jurors has spoken. He himself was sexually abused and gave the other jurors an account of it apparently. Not sure if this broke any juror rules. Usually if they have experience that would favour one side or another, they would not usually be suitable as a juror. Not sure if this could be additional grounds for an appeal.

Maxwell juror opens up to The Independent: ‘This verdict is for all the victims’

‘For those who testified, for those who came forward and for those who haven’t come forward. I’m glad that Maxwell has been held accountable,’ a juror in Maxwell’s sex-trafficking trial tells Lucia Osborne-Crowley

www.independent.co.uk

Here's another link that does actually suggest this could be grounds for a mistrial.

Ghislaine Maxwell could file for mistrial if juror did not reveal his own childhood abuse when selected

Juror Scotty David admitted that he only opened up about his own abuse during deliberations when others questioned the credibility of two of the women.

nypost.com

 

[kdg411]

One of the jurors has spoken. He himself was sexually abused and gave the other jurors an account of it apparently. Not sure if this broke any juror rules. Usually if they have experience that would favour one side or another, they would not usually be suitable as a juror. Not sure if this could be additional grounds for an appeal.

Maxwell juror opens up to The Independent: ‘This verdict is for all the victims’

‘For those who testified, for those who came forward and for those who haven’t come forward. I’m glad that Maxwell has been held accountable,’ a juror in Maxwell’s sex-trafficking trial tells Lucia Osborne-Crowley

www.independent.co.uk

Here's another link that does actually suggest this could be grounds for a mistrial.

Ghislaine Maxwell could file for mistrial if juror did not reveal his own childhood abuse when selected

Juror Scotty David admitted that he only opened up about his own abuse during deliberations when others questioned the credibility of two of the women.

nypost.com

It appears that the US Prosecuting Attorney has already addressed this with the court. The defense attorneys have yet to respond.

*(In short, yes, this could be grounds for appeal.)

 

[kdg411]

So both Carolyn and Jane were Florida residents as was Virginia. So isn't it likely that they were part of this Florida plea deal and subsequent agreement that has just been released? Also, does this also protect Maxwell? If so, could this be grounds for appeal?

If they were part of this plea deal then they could not have filed a claim with the Epstein Victim Fund. Didn't the 4 witnesses testify that they had received a settlement with Epstein's estate?

If you're referring to the agreement that Virginia Giuffre had with Epstein then no because that was a civil case against him. It 'may' have more legal ground if the case was criminal in nature & was filed in Florida. Neither of which are true. Just as the 2008 NPA agreement was brought up by Ghislaine Maxwell's attorneys in pre-trial motions. Judge Nathan ruled that the NPA did not include Maxwell because she was not one of four specific persons listed in that agreement.

 

[kdg411]

 

[Tresir]

From the Epsteinblackbook link posted upthread, these are the entries on the flight manifests for the approx dates that relate to the timeframe of the Guiffre allegations. The airport code EGGW is London Luton airport approx 35 miles north of London. I will look up the other codes and update this post.
LEGR Granada, Spain
GMTT Tangiers lbtn, Morocco
EGGW London, Luton
BGR Bangor, Maine
TEB Teterboro, NJ
ISP Long Island Mcarthur, NY


3/8/2001
LEGR 🡒 GMTT =Granada to Tangiers
Alberto Pinto; Female (1); Virginia Roberts; Jeff Epstein; Ghislaine Maxwell; Linda Pinto; Emmy Tayler
3/9/2001
GMTT 🡒 EGGW = Tangiers to London
Virginia Roberts; Roger ?; Jeff Epstein; Ghislaine Maxwell; Emmy Tayler
3/11/2001
EGGW 🡒 BGR = London/Bangor, Maine
Virginia Roberts; Roger ?; Jeff Epstein; Ghislaine Maxwell; Emmy Tayler
3/11/2001
BGR 🡒 TEB = Bangor, Maine/Teterboro NJ
Virginia Roberts; Roger ?; Jeff Epstein; Ghislaine Maxwell; Emmy Tayler
3/15/2001
TEB 🡒 ISP = Teterboro NJ/Long Island NY
Banu Koluk-Koylu; Alexia Wallert; A P; Jeff Epstein; Ghislaine Maxwell

I think we can see what the date is likely to be from this manifest. From just this small excerpt we can see that Virginia travelled to 4 countries in 3 continents in only one week. Morocco-Spain-UK-USA. (Africa - Europe - North America)

 

[kdg411]

 

[Tresir]

If they were part of this plea deal then they could not have filed a claim with the Epstein Victim Fund. Didn't the 4 witnesses testify that they had received a settlement with Epstein's estate?

If you're referring to the agreement that Virginia Giuffre had with Epstein then no because that was a civil case against him. It 'may' have more legal ground if the case was criminal in nature & was filed in Florida. Neither of which are true. Just as the 2008 NPA agreement was brought up by Ghislaine Maxwell's attorneys in pre-trial motions. Judge Nathan ruled that the NPA did not include Maxwell because she was not one of four specific persons listed in that agreement.

Yes I think you are right and all 4 got compensation from the Epstein fund. I have also read a live link of yesterday's court discussions and the judge explained the first parties and second parties. He said the first parties were Guiffre and her lawyers and the second parties were Epstein and his lawyers.

 

[kdg411]

Yes I think you are right and all 4 got compensation from the Epstein fund. I have also read a live link of yesterday's court discussions and the judge explained the first parties and second parties. He said the first parties were Guiffre and her lawyers and the second parties were Epstein and his lawyers.

Now that makes sense about the parties. Those legal definitions can be perplexing.

I guess we are still waiting for the Judge to issue his ruling on Andrew. His generic 'soon' could take a while.

After reading the articles you've posted I've wondered where the paparazzi was the night that Virginia & Andrew were supposedly at Tramp's. Certainly they get tipped off when a royal is out & about in public so that makes me question this a bit more.