NY PATRICK ALFORD: Missing from Brooklyn, NY - 22 Jan 2010 - Age 7

SheWhoMustNotBeNamed · Feb 1, 2020

Patrick Alford still missing after 10 years, more than $250,000 offered for his safe return

It has been 10 years since Patrick Alford went missing, and his whereabouts continue to remain unknown.

The reward for Alford's safe return is more than $250,000. As of today, Alford would be 17 years old and investigators say they are not giving up hope.

In addition to the NYPD's efforts, Omni Present Investigations is also working to find Alford. On top of the $12,000 Crime Stoppers reward, it's offering a $250,000 reward for his safe return.

Patrick Alford still missing after 10 years, more than $250,000 offered for his safe return

It has been 10 years since Patrick Alford went missing, and his whereabouts continue to remain unknown.

www.news12.com

SheWhoMustNotBeNamed · Feb 2, 2020

Patrick's case is very close to my heart. If anybody has any questions about the case, please let me know. I have followed from day 1 and at one point had every article and picture from the case saved.

Please jump in with any comments or ideas! Lil Pee has been gone for 10 years!

Kimster · Feb 3, 2020

Are his bio parents involved in his life? And have they been involved since he's been missing, I guess is my main question.

SheWhoMustNotBeNamed · Feb 3, 2020

Kimster said:
Are his bio parents involved in his life? And have they been involved since he's been missing, I guess is my main question.

Patrick and his little sister (then 4) lived with their bio-mom (Jennifer) prior to being sent into foster care. They initially put her in jail for concealing his whereabouts, because they genuinely thought she took him from care. But in the last 10 years, she's given no indication that that's true.

Patrick's father (Patrick Sr.) could have taken custody of them, but the ACS judge would not allow it. Something about a possible domestic violence incident between Sr. and a women he was living with. THEN, at a hearing a week later, when they were going to recommend the kids be placed with him anyway, Jennifer lodged an abuse allegation against Sr's girlfriend. She later recanted, but before the next scheduled hearing, Patrick disappeared.

Sr. was then given custody of Patrick's little sister. I'm unsure of the current custody situation. There are other children involved as well.

I know they've both been involved in the media doing interviews, and on social media. Jennifer more so, but she was the custodial parent prior to this mess. But when you're a not-wealthy minority family within the foster care system, it can be hard to get people to listen.

Kimster · Feb 3, 2020

What a sad situation!

SheWhoMustNotBeNamed · Feb 24, 2020

I'm trying to recover all of the documents I had saved from Patrick's disappearance, but the computer I had them saved on crashed.

All of the news articles and pictures.

For now, here is a bit more info on the area Patrick disappeared from - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starrett_City,_Brooklyn

Starrett City (informally and colloquially known as the Spring Creek Towers) is a housing development in the Spring Creek section of East New York, in Brooklyn, New York City. It is located on a peninsula on the north shore of Jamaica Bay, bounded by Fresh Creek to the west and Hendrix Creek to the east. Starrett City contains both residential and commercial buildings. The residential portion of the property contains eight "sections" in a towers in the park layout. The complex also contains a community and recreation center, as well as two schools.

The development originally spanned 153 acres (0.62 km2)[6] before being subdivided in 2009 as part of a refinancing. It now occupies 140 acres (57 ha), after several parcels of undeveloped land were separated out from the residential site.[7] The housing development contains 5,881 apartment units in 46 buildings, which range from 11 to 20 stories high.[8][9]:2–3

Also, according to Family Watchdog, there were about 40 sex offenders within a mile of the address Patrick disappeared from. There were over 1,000 sex offenders within 5 miles.

SheWhoMustNotBeNamed · Feb 24, 2020

I wrote this for Patrick several years ago and updated it this year on the 10-year anniversary of his disappearance.

*** MISSING 10 YEARS *** / / $$$ 250,000 REWARD $$$

On a cold, January night ten years ago, seven-year-old Patrick Alford left his apartment complex in the Starrett City section of Brooklyn, New York wearing nothing but a red t-shirt, blue jeans, and black sneakers. He had reportedly slipped away from his foster mother while taking out the trash between 8:00-9:00 pm.

The ensuing search for Patrick has been called one of the largest in New York history. Helicopters, search dogs, and over 100 officers have looked for the young boy. Over 14,000 people were interviewed, including all 6,000 residents of the apartment complex Patrick disappeared from. An additional 214 buildings were searched, and 9,100 doors were knocked on. Seven registered sex offenders near the apartment complex were interviewed, as were 28 bus drivers, seven Brooklyn car service employees, and 21 family members, friends, and acquaintances. Eighty-one surveillance videos were analyzed, including one video from a Manhattan terminal of the Staten Island Ferry that showed a boy fitting Patrick’s description being led away by a woman. Patrick’s family says that the boy is not Patrick. A situation room was even devoted to Patrick at the precinct house. His case has appeared on America’s Most Wanted three times. His scent was traced to a bus stop two blocks away from the apartment complex. Yet, ten years later, the seven-year-old has yet to be found.

By all accounts, Patrick was a little boy who missed his mother desperately. Since moving in with his foster family three weeks prior, young Patrick was reportedly very upset. He had even made attempts to flee back to his mother. According to one account, he even threatened to kill himself.

Patrick and his younger sister had been taken away from their mother, Jennifer Rodriguez, after the 23-year-old had been arrested for shoplifting around Christmas 2009. Upon investigation, the Administration for Children’s Services (ACS) determined that the children were neglected. Despite offers from Patrick’s father and other family members to care for the children, an ACS judge placed Patrick and his sister in foster care, with a foster mother who spoke very little English. Because of this, in 2018 New York City officials agreed to a settlement to pay $6 million into a trust for Patrick.

Shortly after Patrick’s disappearance, his mother was jailed by an ACS judge who insisted that she knew the location of her son. However, she was later released after a polygraph test revealed she had no knowledge of her son’s whereabouts.

The three prevailing theories about what happened to the seven-year-old include Patrick being with family members who wanted him back after he was placed in foster care, Patrick dying from exposure to the cold after running away, and Patrick being abducted. Police have a growing fear that Patrick’s case echos that of Etan Patz, a six-year-old boy snatched of the streets of New York on his way to school in 1979. Etan has never been found.

Glaring questions surround the coverage of Patrick’s case. Many have asked if his case would have received more media attention if he were white or female. Others question whether the public would have paid more attention had Patrick not been in the foster-care system. Others have blamed his mother for living a life that put Patrick in that situation, and still others have blamed ACS for placing Patrick in foster care instead of with other capable family members. However, as easy as it is to sit back and try to place the blame on someone...anyone, a decade later, a now 17-year-old Patrick Alford is still out there, somewhere.

Anyone with information on Patrick’s whereabouts or the circumstances surrounding his disappearance should contact the Crime Stoppers hotline at 1-800-577-TIPS or the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children at 1-800-THE-LOST.

GrandmaBear · Feb 26, 2020

SheWhoMustNotBeNamed said:
I wrote this for Patrick several years ago and updated it this year on the 10-year anniversary of his disappearance.

*** MISSING 10 YEARS *** / / $$$ 250,000 REWARD $$$

On a cold, January night ten years ago, seven-year-old Patrick Alford left his apartment complex in the Starrett City section of Brooklyn, New York wearing nothing but a red t-shirt, blue jeans, and black sneakers. He had reportedly slipped away from his foster mother while taking out the trash between 8:00-9:00 pm.

The ensuing search for Patrick has been called one of the largest in New York history. Helicopters, search dogs, and over 100 officers have looked for the young boy. Over 14,000 people were interviewed, including all 6,000 residents of the apartment complex Patrick disappeared from. An additional 214 buildings were searched, and 9,100 doors were knocked on. Seven registered sex offenders near the apartment complex were interviewed, as were 28 bus drivers, seven Brooklyn car service employees, and 21 family members, friends, and acquaintances. Eighty-one surveillance videos were analyzed, including one video from a Manhattan terminal of the Staten Island Ferry that showed a boy fitting Patrick’s description being led away by a woman. Patrick’s family says that the boy is not Patrick. A situation room was even devoted to Patrick at the precinct house. His case has appeared on America’s Most Wanted three times. His scent was traced to a bus stop two blocks away from the apartment complex. Yet, ten years later, the seven-year-old has yet to be found.

By all accounts, Patrick was a little boy who missed his mother desperately. Since moving in with his foster family three weeks prior, young Patrick was reportedly very upset. He had even made attempts to flee back to his mother. According to one account, he even threatened to kill himself.

Patrick and his younger sister had been taken away from their mother, Jennifer Rodriguez, after the 23-year-old had been arrested for shoplifting around Christmas 2009. Upon investigation, the Administration for Children’s Services (ACS) determined that the children were neglected. Despite offers from Patrick’s father and other family members to care for the children, an ACS judge placed Patrick and his sister in foster care, with a foster mother who spoke very little English. Because of this, in 2018 New York City officials agreed to a settlement to pay $6 million into a trust for Patrick.

Shortly after Patrick’s disappearance, his mother was jailed by an ACS judge who insisted that she knew the location of her son. However, she was later released after a polygraph test revealed she had no knowledge of her son’s whereabouts.

The three prevailing theories about what happened to the seven-year-old include Patrick being with family members who wanted him back after he was placed in foster care, Patrick dying from exposure to the cold after running away, and Patrick being abducted. Police have a growing fear that Patrick’s case echos that of Etan Patz, a six-year-old boy snatched of the streets of New York on his way to school in 1979. Etan has never been found.

Glaring questions surround the coverage of Patrick’s case. Many have asked if his case would have received more media attention if he were white or female. Others question whether the public would have paid more attention had Patrick not been in the foster-care system. Others have blamed his mother for living a life that put Patrick in that situation, and still others have blamed ACS for placing Patrick in foster care instead of with other capable family members. However, as easy as it is to sit back and try to place the blame on someone...anyone, a decade later, a now 17-year-old Patrick Alford is still out there, somewhere.

Anyone with information on Patrick’s whereabouts or the circumstances surrounding his disappearance should contact the Crime Stoppers hotline at 1-800-577-TIPS or the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children at 1-800-THE-LOST.

Just read everything on this thread. One question, I know you said a dog traced his scent to a bus stop but was there any video footage of him proven to be him? Particularly in that apartment complex and those two blocks? Thanks in advance.

SheWhoMustNotBeNamed · Feb 26, 2020

GrandmaBear said:
Just read everything on this thread. One question, I know you said a dog traced his scent to a bus stop but was there any video footage of him proven to be him? Particularly in that apartment complex and those two blocks? Thanks in advance.

As far as I know...no. No video confirmation. At least none that's been publicly released. Just that "potential" video from the ferry that showed a young boy and a woman. But that was never confirmed to be him and his family believes it is not.
They did interview 28 bus drivers. Probably those that would have been on the routes for stops near his place. Again, to my knowledge, no confirmation that he ever got on a bus.

GrandmaBear · Feb 26, 2020

SheWhoMustNotBeNamed said:
As far as I know...no. No video confirmation. At least none that's been publicly released. Just that "potential" video from the ferry that showed a young boy and a woman. But that was never confirmed to be him and his family believes it is not.
They did interview 28 bus drivers. Probably those that would have been on the routes for stops near his place. Again, to my knowledge, no confirmation that he ever got on a bus.

I guess I wondered how close they looked at the foster mother and family and whether he actually left home. I thought maybe in 2010 there would be more video, at least in NY. I don't know how long scent lasts but that scent could have been from another point in time, and he even could have been with someone walking. I don't know the case at all but it sounds like they centered on his bio mom pretty quickly due to what the foster mom said?

SheWhoMustNotBeNamed · Feb 26, 2020

GrandmaBear said:
I guess I wondered how close they looked at the foster mother and family and whether he actually left home. I thought maybe in 2010 there would be more video, at least in NY. I don't know how long scent lasts but that scent could have been from another point in time, and he even could have been with someone walking. I don't know the case at all but it sounds like they centered on his bio mom pretty quickly due to what the foster mom said?

I know she was investigated. How thoroughly? I don't know. They did stop giving her more foster children for a time while they were investigating, though.

But yes, his mom was immediately suspect #1. Arrested very quickly.

Patrick's building may have had cameras, but they were not working at the time of his disappearance. His mom filed a lawsuit about it. It didn't go anywhere.

Mom of missing boy Patrick Alford, 7, blames complex’s faulty security cameras for disappearance

Starrett City is trying to squash a federal lawsuit that accuses the Brooklyn housing complex of negligence in the disappearance of 7-year-old Patrick Alford. The suit, filed by Jennifer Rodriguez,…

www.nydailynews.com

I also found it interesting that apparently, per the Wikipedia page linked above, this section of New York has it's own private security. Patrolled 24 hours a day.

Public safety
Starrett City is patrolled by the New York City Police Department's 75th Precinct,[3] though primary security is assumed by its own private security force, called the Spring Creek Towers Department of Public Safety. The Spring Creek Towers security force was created because, when Starrett City opened in the 1970s, the 75th Precinct had one of the highest crime rates in New York City.[11]:56 In the five years after Starrett City opened, it had one of the city's lowest crime rates, mainly because of the existence of the security force.[15]The Spring Creek Towers Department of Public Safety has been used as a case study in the advantages of private security over public policing. Edwin Donovan and William Walsh write that "Statistically, Starrett City must be considered one of the safest communities in the United States."[28]

The Spring Creek Towers Department of Public Safety employs public safety officers, armed while on duty, to preserve the life and property of the residents of the complex. Officers enforce New York state laws as well as New York City laws. Starrett City is patrolled by officers 24 hours a day on foot, bicycles, or in vehicles.[29]

See also: http://www.starrettcitypics.com/Security/

GrandmaBear · Feb 26, 2020

SheWhoMustNotBeNamed said:
I know she was investigated. How thoroughly? I don't know. They did stop giving her more foster children for a time while they were investigating, though.

But yes, his mom was immediately suspect #1. Arrested very quickly.

Patrick's building may have had cameras, but they were not working at the time of his disappearance. His mom filed a lawsuit about it. It didn't go anywhere.

Mom of missing boy Patrick Alford, 7, blames complex’s faulty security cameras for disappearance

Starrett City is trying to squash a federal lawsuit that accuses the Brooklyn housing complex of negligence in the disappearance of 7-year-old Patrick Alford. The suit, filed by Jennifer Rodriguez,…

www.nydailynews.com

I also found it interesting that apparently, per the Wikipedia page linked above, this section of New York has it's own private security. Patrolled 24 hours a day.

Public safety
Starrett City is patrolled by the New York City Police Department's 75th Precinct,[3] though primary security is assumed by its own private security force, called the Spring Creek Towers Department of Public Safety. The Spring Creek Towers security force was created because, when Starrett City opened in the 1970s, the 75th Precinct had one of the highest crime rates in New York City.[11]:56 In the five years after Starrett City opened, it had one of the city's lowest crime rates, mainly because of the existence of the security force.[15]The Spring Creek Towers Department of Public Safety has been used as a case study in the advantages of private security over public policing. Edwin Donovan and William Walsh write that "Statistically, Starrett City must be considered one of the safest communities in the United States."[28]

The Spring Creek Towers Department of Public Safety employs public safety officers, armed while on duty, to preserve the life and property of the residents of the complex. Officers enforce New York state laws as well as New York City laws. Starrett City is patrolled by officers 24 hours a day on foot, bicycles, or in vehicles.[29]

See also: http://www.starrettcitypics.com/Security/

Thank you so much for taking the time to reply so thoroughly. I am sure you all are very busy. The private security is interesting and it is interesting as well that they can enforce state and city laws, not quite like a citizen's arrest but it makes me think of that.

I tend to always wonder in foster care and adoption crime cases because I feel like we see a lot of it. Did they examine the foster residence?

Feel free to respond when it works for you, no rush. I am impressed with all you all have done so quickly here.

SheWhoMustNotBeNamed · Feb 26, 2020

GrandmaBear said:
Thank you so much for taking the time to reply so thoroughly. I am sure you all are very busy. The private security is interesting and it is interesting as well that they can enforce state and city laws, not quite like a citizen's arrest but it makes me think of that.

I tend to always wonder in foster care and adoption crime cases because I feel like we see a lot of it. Did they examine the foster residence?

Feel free to respond when it works for you, no rush. I am impressed with all you all have done so quickly here.

Of course. Thank you for showing an interest in Patrick's case.

I'm sure they did examine the foster residence. I do remember she had a history of taking in a lot of kids. She'd been a foster parent for something like 20 years without incident. But she may have spoken only Spanish.

The story from the foster mother varies slightly from report to report, but I think it may be due to very quick reports early on, and a possible language barrier. Most reports state that they went to the trash together, and suddenly he is gone. One report stated that they walked down to the lobby together to throw out the garbage, she LEFT to go back to the apartment to take a phone call, and then came BACK and he was gone. (A later report said they stepped out of the apartment when the phone rang, and she went back to answer it. Not all the way down in the lobby.) I have no idea why you would leave a child alone, when that child has repeatedly threatened to run. Patrick's sister, even though she was 4 at the time, said that Patrick took the trash out by himself.

Going back through old posts, when Patrick's case was added to America's Most Wanted, they said that the foster mother was "seen on surveillance videos" actively searching for Patrick. But no word on whether Patrick was seen at all.

Another interesting fact... after Patrick's mother was jailed for supposedly hiding Patrick, she blamed her aunt for taking him. This same aunt had apparently told an ACS worker that mom was planning to abduct the kids from care. "Watch them. Mommy trying to take them. Caution." State workers (ACS) are the ones that convinced the judge to hold her, even though investigators stated that they did not believe she had him.

IMO, bio-mom and foster mom both made some bad decisions that probably weren't the best for Patrick. But I don't think either of them had any direct involvement with his disappearance.

I forgot I had made a map of some significant locations in relation to this case.

Patrick Alford - Google My Maps

Patrick Alford

www.google.com

GrandmaBear · Feb 26, 2020

SheWhoMustNotBeNamed said:
Of course. Thank you for showing an interest in Patrick's case.

I'm sure they did examine the foster residence. I do remember she had a history of taking in a lot of kids. She'd been a foster parent for something like 20 years without incident. But she may have spoken only Spanish.

The story from the foster mother varies slightly from report to report, but I think it may be due to very quick reports early on, and a possible language barrier. Most reports state that they went to the trash together, and suddenly he is gone. One report stated that they walked down to the lobby together to throw out the garbage, she LEFT to go back to the apartment to take a phone call, and then came BACK and he was gone. (A later report said they stepped out of the apartment when the phone rang, and she went back to answer it. Not all the way down in the lobby.) I have no idea why you would leave a child alone, when that child has repeatedly threatened to run. Patrick's sister, even though she was 4 at the time, said that Patrick took the trash out by himself.

Going back through old posts, when Patrick's case was added to America's Most Wanted, they said that the foster mother was "seen on surveillance videos" actively searching for Patrick. But no word on whether Patrick was seen at all.

Another interesting fact... after Patrick's mother was jailed for supposedly hiding Patrick, she blamed her aunt for taking him. This same aunt had apparently told an ACS worker that mom was planning to abduct the kids from care. "Watch them. Mommy trying to take them. Caution." State workers (ACS) are the ones that convinced the judge to hold her, even though investigators stated that they did not believe she had him.

IMO, bio-mom and foster mom both made some bad decisions that probably weren't the best for Patrick. But I don't think either of them had any direct involvement with his disappearance.

I forgot I had made a map of some significant locations in relation to this case.

Patrick Alford - Google My Maps

Patrick Alford

www.google.com

Thank you. You are very well informed on this case. Interesting all of the way around. And sad of course. The differing stories of the foster mom are interesting but then so is the bio mother and aunt, etc. The foster mom had no husband or bf at the time it sounds like?

GrandmaBear · Aug 7, 2020

Bumping. This one struck me.

SheWhoMustNotBeNamed · Aug 8, 2020

Oh me too @GrandmaBear . You have no idea.

GrandmaBear · Aug 8, 2020

In reading through this again, as often happens, different thoughts come. First, it sounds like there is acrimony and possible custody issues aside from ACS. Just reading between the lines. The aunt says mom is going to kidnap, the mother makes accusation about dad's girlfriend, yet later says children should have been with him or family, and mom also blames aunt later, etc. In such cases, one is often trying to get the other or another in trouble and it helps no one, and sometimes even one's own family sides with the other parent. It never imo benefits the child, unless there is REAL cause for concern. I still think it is an absolute shame these children could not be placed with family though.

I suppose it is semantics or just reporting but it seems odd the statements are that the mom was going to kidnap her son from foster care, etc., etc. Wouldn't she or anyone want the daughter as well? It only states the son.

Family taking him seems unlikely unless they had some way of knowing he would be downstairs with garbage and alone or someone almost had to hang around 24/7 waiting for an opportunity.

Was this family, the mother, the children or anyone familiar with this area and the complexes and part of town? Would Patrick have a clue where he was or how to get around? I think of 7 years old as a very young child but he could be more savvy than I think. If he took off alone, how would he know where to go or how to navigate the bus system to where he intended to go?

The mother passed a polygraph and while people debate them, she still passed and said she did not have him. I wonder if anyone else did? Take and pass a polygraph? Including the foster parent and other family members, etc.

It is a bit odd to me that the mother says something about a language barrier between the son and the foster parent. It says Patrick is part Hispanic but I guess it is possible he did grow up not learning two languages or knowing much of one and his mom is young too...

I think the foster mother has the most to hide honestly. I am not accusing her, but am saying that if she was not supervising him, it could affect her ability to foster in the future and could affect her likelihood of keeping the others she has. The bio mom has an interest too but I do not see how she could have planned this easily. I think going back up to or for a phone call seems unlikely. The four year old sister saying Patrick emptying the garbage alone is probably true but 4 year olds can't always keep their days straight, she may have seen him do that the day before... It still carries some weight to me though because that speaks to the likelihood, the foster mother sent the older child, Patrick, to take out the garbage, and very possibly alone, and possibly routinely.

To give her some credit, she could have normally watched or waited and checked on him but perhaps another child or phone call took her attention once she sent him down. I would like to see the layout, steps, apartment, where the garbage went, etc.

Do you know if there is actual evidence that he actually disappeared when stated or was doing as stated?

The statement that the bio mother knew where the kids were being fostered at is interesting. It means there was contact allowed, they let her know or someone did, or it is just not true. It sounds as if she would have to know what apartment and all to plan to seize him though...

I would like to know if there are any connections between these people. What I mean is could the aunt know the foster mother? Could the father? Could anyone live in the same building? Could the foster mother have friends that are mutual? Could either side, bio dad or mom, etc. have any connections to anyone or anything involved...

The fact this is NYC lends a very easy thought towards he was out and about on his own and was abducted but unless someone knew his vulnerability and timing and the opportunity perfect and a young child, it seems unlikely. If he truly did express a desire though to run and be with his mom, maybe he did take off and someone saw a young 7 year old alone...

Then there is the side of me that goes to a certain place sometimes with foster care, adoption, even sometimes stepparents. While some very good ones and very loving ones, we see plenty of the opposite. This is a child known to be at risk or in a vulnerable situation, young mother with no power of any kind, foster care parent knows it, people in the court system know it, LE probably knows it and people in the building and complex may know it... Also, if the child is a handful for a temporary foster parent, that is another factor...

You knew the case from the start, I don't, but clearly mom was young when she had him. It says 23 and he was 7. So she was 16. Then she has the sister a few years later. Were she and dad ever married or did they live together? I am almost going to guess so because both children sound as if they are his. Since she is or was so young, her aunt likewise could be younger than I was first thinking.

I don't see much on the dad but should probably just try to do some research myself but in this case you did say early on to ask lol because you know it well.

Mom arrested for shoplifting and she is 23. That probably indicates she is not flush with money. Is dad paying support if she was custodial parent as it says? I don't know the shoplifting details but it does not seem on the face of it enough to take her children. However, I suppose they investigated and it went from there. However, the other parent or family members all around could play in here and have tried to influence that. Nothing worse than one parent saying the other can't buy diapers for their kid and they are awful because of it but then finding that very parent is not paying their part...

Not saying any of that is the case here, but I don't know the case. As you said, getting interest and help as a poor minority parent, I believe that is often true of poor in general as well, is probably not easy. I had never heard of this case prior to right here that I can recall.

I know I am going on, but I need a focus or two, generally I have a few cases that consume me a bit, lately, there just is not info on some of them, the weather has been whatever and more.

Seven is old enough most likely to remember who he is or at least that he had a life prior to where he may be today... If alive. The four year old sister would now be something like 14 and may have some memories that may help, young age though...

One last thought is IF someone knew when and how they could get him and met him when he took the garbage down or out (unsure if outside or in?), like for instance his mother or a relative, and they take him by the hand and get on the bus with him, the bus driver is more than likely not going to notice so much a child with a parent for instance... However, HOW could they know or know the foster mother would not be present...?

Long chapter with questionnaire complete--don't feel any need nor rush to answer. Just talking out loud with some thoughts; his seems like a case that should be solvable and use a fresh new look and push maybe--podcasters and TV shows are doing a lot of that lately... If he is alive, he may see it and it trigger something... The child just may have been told he was being sent to live with a relative and know little more...

SheWhoMustNotBeNamed · Aug 8, 2020

GrandmaBear said:
I suppose it is semantics or just reporting but it seems odd the statements are that the mom was going to kidnap her son from foster care, etc., etc. Wouldn't she or anyone want the daughter as well? It only states the son.

I think it's just the reporting. Because it came out after the fact. The aunt said mom was going to take "them", but since Patrick was the only one who disappeared, they focused on that.

GrandmaBear said:
Family taking him seems unlikely unless they had some way of knowing he would be downstairs with garbage and alone or someone almost had to hang around 24/7 waiting for an opportunity.

Was this family, the mother, the children or anyone familiar with this area and the complexes and part of town? Would Patrick have a clue where he was or how to get around? I think of 7 years old as a very young child but he could be more savvy than I think. If he took off alone, how would he know where to go or how to navigate the bus system to where he intended to go?

I don't think it's been established 100% if she knew exactly where the kids were or not, but I don't believe so. I'm not sure how "street smart" Patrick was, but a lot of NYC kids seem to be more so than others. It's very likely that he was at least familiar with the bus/subway system. My thoughts are that he *thought* he knew what he was doing, but maybe didn't know as much as he thought he did once he actually got out there.

GrandmaBear said:
The mother passed a polygraph and while people debate them, she still passed and said she did not have him. I wonder if anyone else did? Take and pass a polygraph? Including the foster parent and other family members, etc.

I want to say that the foster mom did but I can't find a for sure reference. Other family, I'm not sure.

GrandmaBear said:
I think the foster mother has the most to hide honestly. I am not accusing her, but am saying that if she was not supervising him, it could affect her ability to foster in the future and could affect her likelihood of keeping the others she has. The bio mom has an interest too but I do not see how she could have planned this easily. I think going back up to or for a phone call seems unlikely. The four year old sister saying Patrick emptying the garbage alone is probably true but 4 year olds can't always keep their days straight, she may have seen him do that the day before... It still carries some weight to me though because that speaks to the likelihood, the foster mother sent the older child, Patrick, to take out the garbage, and very possibly alone, and possibly routinely.

To give her some credit, she could have normally watched or waited and checked on him but perhaps another child or phone call took her attention once she sent him down. I would like to see the layout, steps, apartment, where the garbage went, etc.

Do you know if there is actual evidence that he actually disappeared when stated or was doing as stated?

The initial reports were all so convoluted I'm not sure if it ever came out with 100% certainty exactly what he was doing or exactly what happened when he disappeared.

I don't believe his foster mom harmed him, but she KNEW that Patrick hated it there, wanted to run away, had threatened suicide, etc. And she left him alone. The exact circumstances of why he was alone aren't clear, but she still left him alone. To go from zero incidents in 20 years, to killing a child? I just don't see it. But negligence? Absolutely. She may have twisted her story a bit to sound more innocent, thinking he would be found soon. "Ohh it was just a few seconds we were apart! I turned my back to the phone and he was gone!" When the reality could have been much different. But I think that if there were abuse or violence or something going on in that home, his sister or one of her other foster children over 20 years would have reported something.

GrandmaBear said:
The statement that the bio mother knew where the kids were being fostered at is interesting. It means there was contact allowed, they let her know or someone did, or it is just not true. It sounds as if she would have to know what apartment and all to plan to seize him though...

I know they were allowed supervised visits, but I don't think these happened at the foster mom's place. I know bio mom attended a vigil near the foster home about 2 weeks after he had disappeared. She was actually taken into custody for that, because she wasn't supposed to be near the foster home. :eyeroll: But I don't think she knew where the kids were staying until he disappeared from there.

GrandmaBear said:
I would like to know if there are any connections between these people. What I mean is could the aunt know the foster mother? Could the father? Could anyone live in the same building? Could the foster mother have friends that are mutual? Could either side, bio dad or mom, etc. have any connections to anyone or anything involved...

I really don't think so... And I doubt the foster mom would risk her license for one kid, if that's what you're thinking? Maybe foster mom got him out to a mutual friend or acquaintance? But again, why not both kids?

GrandmaBear said:
The fact this is NYC lends a very easy thought towards he was out and about on his own and was abducted but unless someone knew his vulnerability and timing and the opportunity perfect and a young child, it seems unlikely. If he truly did express a desire though to run and be with his mom, maybe he did take off and someone saw a young 7 year old alone...

I usually don't go there either but in this case I just don't know what else to think. I feel like he left the home of his own accord to TRY to run back to his mother. But something terrible happened. I don't know if he just got really cold and really lost and hunkered down somewhere, and just hasn't been found? Or that one-in-a-million chance of a predator "happening" upon him actually happened. I lean toward the former.

GrandmaBear said:
Then there is the side of me that goes to a certain place sometimes with foster care, adoption, even sometimes stepparents. While some very good ones and very loving ones, we see plenty of the opposite. This is a child known to be at risk or in a vulnerable situation, young mother with no power of any kind, foster care parent knows it, people in the court system know it, LE probably knows it and people in the building and complex may know it... Also, if the child is a handful for a temporary foster parent, that is another factor...

Patrick was let down by the system in every way imaginable. But I can absolutely see him being a "handful" at his foster home. He hated it there. I guess it's possible something got out of hand as he was throwing a fit/tantrum etc. But I don't know.

GrandmaBear said:
You knew the case from the start, I don't, but clearly mom was young when she had him. It says 23 and he was 7. So she was 16. Then she has the sister a few years later. Were she and dad ever married or did they live together? I am almost going to guess so because both children sound as if they are his. Since she is or was so young, her aunt likewise could be younger than I was first thinking.

I don't see much on the dad but should probably just try to do some research myself but in this case you did say early on to ask lol because you know it well.

Mom arrested for shoplifting and she is 23. That probably indicates she is not flush with money. Is dad paying support if she was custodial parent as it says? I don't know the shoplifting details but it does not seem on the face of it enough to take her children. However, I suppose they investigated and it went from there. However, the other parent or family members all around could play in here and have tried to influence that. Nothing worse than one parent saying the other can't buy diapers for their kid and they are awful because of it but then finding that very parent is not paying their part...

Not saying any of that is the case here, but I don't know the case. As you said, getting interest and help as a poor minority parent, I believe that is often true of poor in general as well, is probably not easy. I had never heard of this case prior to right here that I can recall.

I'm not sure if they were married, to be honest. I really don't know. Jennifer has other kids as well, as does Patrick Sr. I can't keep everyone straight. No idea if there was child support, visitation, whatever. No idea. About 2 years after he disappeared, Patrick's father was actually shot and left partially paralyzed in a (probably drug-related) home invasion.

GrandmaBear said:
One last thought is IF someone knew when and how they could get him and met him when he took the garbage down or out (unsure if outside or in?), like for instance his mother or a relative, and they take him by the hand and get on the bus with him, the bus driver is more than likely not going to notice so much a child with a parent for instance... However, HOW could they know or know the foster mother would not be present...?

Yeah, him being abducted from the lobby or whatever seems probably the least likely to me.

Patrick's 18th birthday is this November. My last little bit of hope is that someone will come forward with him then and say "oh look who we found"! I don't see it, because there would still be charges and a LOT of judgment. And I honestly don't think family has him. But I'm trying to hope.

NY PATRICK ALFORD: Missing from Brooklyn, NY - 22 Jan 2010 - Age 7

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