LIBBY GERMAN & ABBY WILLIAMS: Teens murdered in Delphi, IN - Feb 2017

On February 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams and Liberty German were discovered near the Monon High Bridge Trail, which is part of the Delphi Historic Trails in Delphi, Indiana, United States, after the young girls had disappeared from the same trail the previous day. The murders have received significant media coverage because a photo and audio recording of an individual believed to be the girls' murderer was found on German's smartphone. Despite the audio and video recordings of the suspect that have been circulated and the more than 26,000 tips that police have received, no arrest in the case has been made.[1][2][3]

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Police have not publicly stated nor released details of how the girls were murdered.[6] As early as February 15, 2017, Indiana State Police began circulating a still image of an individual reportedly seen on the Monon High Bridge Trail near where the two friends were slain; the grainy photograph appearing to capture a Caucasian male, with hands in pockets, walking on the rail bridge, head down, toward the girls.[4] A few days later, the person in the photograph was named the prime suspect in the double-homicide.[5]

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant,[7] though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." It was at this news conference that officials credited the source of the audio and imagery to German's smartphone, and, further, regarded her as a hero for having had the uncanny foresight and fortitude to record the exchange in secret. Police indicated that additional evidence from the phone had been secured, but that they did not release it so as not to "compromise any future trial." By this time, the reward offered in the case was set at $41,000.[5]


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GrandmaBear

‘We Have Nothing to Fear Except Fear Itself'
This case haunts me as I am sure it does for many and it bothers to no end. It remains so unbelievable that with a recording of the man and the voice that he has not been identified.

Recently, I have watched some podcasts about it again. One did some overlays? of the recordings with a man and it was pretty convincing. We know who the man is who allegedly has an alibi but I will refrain from naming him... It matched up several things, the hat, the man, the walk, the clothing, etc.

Although not into psychics too much, I listened to one with Libby's mom from awhile back. After a reading, she strongly suggested the case and DNA go the genetic route and research they are using. The mother thought they may not have enough DNA to do that or was unsure if they could... I myself sometimes wonder if they have any DNA although short of a messed up crime scene, one would think they would have plenty from two murders.

I alternate between thinking they know who it is and between thinking they do not have a clue and are nowhere close. If they do have DNA and enough of it, I don't see why they are not trying the genetic route. I watched a podcast recently on a case that used this or tried it and was stalled but a woman who is an expert helped out and there was a reason it hit a dead end and I think it was due to adoption and a wrong/different last name and she helped a cop crack the cold case before he retired as he had asked.

Tyson Draper and Linda separately covered this one recently as well. A few people got on them about it as some seem to feel being "newer" it is other's case and not "theirs" and that they don't know it... It was ridiculous. The more eyes on it the better and Tyson actually went to the area.

I try to be fair but I get mad at LE in this one and maybe that's unfair but really, how much more do they need? We know they have more audio and footage most likely as well than we do. I would even bet they have better enhancements of those things and we can guess they have other information we don't have.

If they had a clue who it was, one would think they would get the perp's DNA through another way, a tossed cup or something...

My theories are many but generally I lean towards it being someone from the area or at least the general area that is familiar with the bridge, woods and trails. However, if that was the case, why would they not have him by now?

If you put any store in psychics, this one who allegedly was right about Tylee and JJ and their bodies people say, said this man in this case became almost animalistic once he took the girls... She seemed to mean even beyond the animal we figure many perps are. As if he acts like an animal and it is a side of him that he hides and that unleashed it is downright terrifying (paraphrasing)... She felt that there was some type of Wisconsin connection and a city hub near a Great Lake, leaning towards maybe Chicago... She said Libby tried to fight back and tried to convince the man not to...

Of course, she could get all of that from how many think it may have been a trucker and she could mean Michigan for the connection and the Great Lakes as Abby and her mom came from there/had connections there I believe. I guess it depends on how much store you put in psychics what weight to give it.

So I have nothing new in this long post, just discussing and putting it out there to keep interest in this case that one would have hoped would have been solved by now...
 

GrandmaBear

‘We Have Nothing to Fear Except Fear Itself'
I think they know who is keeping secrets for the killer and are probably afraid. I hope they come forward.
This case is frustrating. If they know that, why don't they put pressure on that person?

They could do it away from the suspected killer just like in how they would meet with an informant.

I see in this article they say twice the grandpa was to pick them up and name Mike Patty. It was Libby's dad, not grandpa Mike, not sure where they got that.

It brought me around to a thought though that I have had before. If this was entirely opportunistic and a stranger, then it does not apply but LE feel, and I tend to as well, that the killer was very familiar with the area and likely from there. There were it seems a limited number of people knowing the girls were going there but of course there also was a Snapchat photo... And I guess a few could find out through other ways like if the sister mentioned it to anyone. So one would almost think it was someone who knew they were there or going there OR I guess it is possible someone was hanging around there waiting for anyone that came to be his victim...

I wonder when the girls were last there and how often they go to this area... Since there are not numbers of similar crimes in the Delphi area, why now, why these girls and who that is a monster among their locals...? And why this location? Was this a long thought out fantasy of someone's and in that case again, how do you know or get the girls there...?

I go back to the basics of most of the time it is someone you know... I also tend to lean towards, even though not dressed as such or much, it may be some type of authority or low level authority figure... Coach, teacher, park ranger, street department, someone who has adjoining land and maybe they were on it... We don't know after all where they were throughout or how they spent their window of time there...

What is strange is that if it was just opportunistic then LE would not feel it is someone local and the person left all sorts of weird signatures so this sounds more premeditated but then again, they almost had to know they were going to be there...

I also remember Abby's mom saying she was not allowed to cross the bridge and had she known, she would not have went (paraphrasing). She also said she was not allowed on FB, etc. but she came to find out she did dabble on FB and such... Were the girls going on about going there beforehand and the plans... Or during...?

To go back to the article you linked, it said he left a ton of evidence all over the place. Then why is it they don't have him? This man is out there in the community somewhere and look at the evil act he committed and very likely will or could again... The public is in danger wherever he resides.

It could mean anything but I take all of the weird signatures and previous comments or hints through the years to mean he posed and staged the scene. The fact he had time to do this though is amazing in and of itself or that he thought he had time or was that unrushed.

I for some reason think of BTK, Dennis Rader, low level constable/dog catcher or something like that... He had his signature and he took his time. And he was from the area in his case... While each person may not have known him, he was an area person and he watched them or at least in many cases... Married, children, secret life... The difference is here we don't have multiple crimes or serial ones...

Okay, I have to get off these early morning thoughts... And the thinking "out loud"...
 

Cousin Dupree

I know nothing - Grandmabear about herself.
This case is frustrating. If they know that, why don't they put pressure on that person?

They could do it away from the suspected killer just like in how they would meet with an informant.

I see in this article they say twice the grandpa was to pick them up and name Mike Patty. It was Libby's dad, not grandpa Mike, not sure where they got that.

It brought me around to a thought though that I have had before. If this was entirely opportunistic and a stranger, then it does not apply but LE feel, and I tend to as well, that the killer was very familiar with the area and likely from there. There were it seems a limited number of people knowing the girls were going there but of course there also was a Snapchat photo... And I guess a few could find out through other ways like if the sister mentioned it to anyone. So one would almost think it was someone who knew they were there or going there OR I guess it is possible someone was hanging around there waiting for anyone that came to be his victim...

I wonder when the girls were last there and how often they go to this area... Since there are not numbers of similar crimes in the Delphi area, why now, why these girls and who that is a monster among their locals...? And why this location? Was this a long thought out fantasy of someone's and in that case again, how do you know or get the girls there...?

I go back to the basics of most of the time it is someone you know... I also tend to lean towards, even though not dressed as such or much, it may be some type of authority or low level authority figure... Coach, teacher, park ranger, street department, someone who has adjoining land and maybe they were on it... We don't know after all where they were throughout or how they spent their window of time there...

What is strange is that if it was just opportunistic then LE would not feel it is someone local and the person left all sorts of weird signatures so this sounds more premeditated but then again, they almost had to know they were going to be there...

I also remember Abby's mom saying she was not allowed to cross the bridge and had she known, she would not have went (paraphrasing). She also said she was not allowed on FB, etc. but she came to find out she did dabble on FB and such... Were the girls going on about going there beforehand and the plans... Or during...?

To go back to the article you linked, it said he left a ton of evidence all over the place. Then why is it they don't have him? This man is out there in the community somewhere and look at the evil act he committed and very likely will or could again... The public is in danger wherever he resides.

It could mean anything but I take all of the weird signatures and previous comments or hints through the years to mean he posed and staged the scene. The fact he had time to do this though is amazing in and of itself or that he thought he had time or was that unrushed.

I for some reason think of BTK, Dennis Rader, low level constable/dog catcher or something like that... He had his signature and he took his time. And he was from the area in his case... While each person may not have known him, he was an area person and he watched them or at least in many cases... Married, children, secret life... The difference is here we don't have multiple crimes or serial ones...

Okay, I have to get off these early morning thoughts... And the thinking "out loud"...


If they pressure the witness they could commit suicide, be murdered or something else.
 

GrandmaBear

‘We Have Nothing to Fear Except Fear Itself'
If they pressure the witness they could commit suicide, be murdered or something else.
That crossed my mind but then the next thought that crossed my mind was if someone is living with a monster like this and knows it, I would be surprised they are not suicidal to begin with or scared of being murdered. I guess I have a very hard time forgiving someone who may know from seeking protection and doing the right thing when one considers these girls' murders... That may seem unfair but how great can their day to day life be living like that...? And if it is about status or money, I have even less understanding or forgiveness. Again, protect yourself, plan ahead, and then make that phone call from a secure location or whatever.

I don't know, I guess it is easy to say, not in the person's shoes... And this is if anyone even does know other than the perp himself... In every single case, they always say someone out there knows something... Just like they always say watch for people who may change their appearance or is acting odd or missed work or starts drinking more than normal, etc. The first case I ever followed, I felt it meant something but I have followed so many now that while probably true, I also realize it is very standard language in every single case.
 

GrandmaBear

‘We Have Nothing to Fear Except Fear Itself'
This is pretty good. I have seen so much in this case through the years that I can't recall if I have seen all of this before, I don't think I have, maybe some of it. Of course, I take some of it with a grain of salt because they are just posts but the ones that are allegedly from Abby's uncle I can believe. Lots of other things in it as well.

I go so everywhere on this case but today, I come back to the point where it just seems, as someone said in the comments under this podcast, that with all they have and today's technology, they should be able to solve this case. Pictures, audio, DNA... It is difficult to believe enhancement capabilities are not beyond what we see and they must have better images, etc. I mean it is a whole lot more than some cases have... Just what is the problem? I think they should consider doing the familial or gen type of research. I also would think if they truly have any suspects that as they hint someone is covering for, why aren't they getting their DNA by a cup in the garbage, etc.? Sadly, that would seem to indicate they have NONE.

The woman who ran into the guy wanting a ride to Delphi claiming his car broke down was interesting with her info. Same day. She refused the ride but offered to call for help. He said he had already called his dad. And more. I may have heard that one before but if I did, I forgot from all of the info read through time. It rings the bell with LE asking for anyone that saw a vehicle parked in a certain area... If the perp because of activity did not dare return to his vehicle, he heads off walking to town or hiding and then walking, etc. He has daddy or the gf he claimed to be going to see take him back for the vehicle and it disappears... This account was at night and though it did not give the time, she is probably very fortunate. If the perp had intended to rape the girls or one of them and it did not turn out that way, due to time and then searching, he was possibly still looking for a victim. Telling her he had a gf in Delphi could have been true or it could have been an attempt to reassure her for a ride... Which she refused anyhow... Smart move. Just another thought of so many through time, sigh...

Anyhow, this is a recent one if anyone has any interest. Most things have been rehashed so many times but it was interesting with the texts and such.

 

tlorik

Truth for Tom Brown
Thanks for the info on the video - I hadn't seen it so now will go watch it. I started following this case when the girls were missing and search was going on. This case is why I left the other website - bickering, sniping, rumors - the whole thing.
I'm not completely, 100% convinced it's someone local - the population of Delphi is only 2800 - hard to imagine staying under the radar in a town that small for that long. However, it could be someone in a surrounding area that was familiar with that park. I think it was a crime of opportunity - I don't think they were stalked, or if they were it wasn't on FB or twitter, it would have been someone that knew them from school or around town.
One thing that caught my attention way back - Delphi is close to a major highway and the park is even closer. According to Google maps, almost directly across from the gate to the park is a facility that looks like some kind of warehouse or shipping location. It would be possible for a trucker to leave his trailer to be loaded and take a walk to the park. Later he gets back into his truck and disappears. However, I gave up on that theory because the type of serial killer that would be would have more victims I think. And I'm still undecided on whether there's any connection to Lyric and Elizabeth?
I do think we'll be surprised when they make an arrest and we find out the info LE has held back.
 

GrandmaBear

‘We Have Nothing to Fear Except Fear Itself'
Thanks for the info on the video - I hadn't seen it so now will go watch it. I started following this case when the girls were missing and search was going on. This case is why I left the other website - bickering, sniping, rumors - the whole thing.
I'm not completely, 100% convinced it's someone local - the population of Delphi is only 2800 - hard to imagine staying under the radar in a town that small for that long. However, it could be someone in a surrounding area that was familiar with that park. I think it was a crime of opportunity - I don't think they were stalked, or if they were it wasn't on FB or twitter, it would have been someone that knew them from school or around town.
One thing that caught my attention way back - Delphi is close to a major highway and the park is even closer. According to Google maps, almost directly across from the gate to the park is a facility that looks like some kind of warehouse or shipping location. It would be possible for a trucker to leave his trailer to be loaded and take a walk to the park. Later he gets back into his truck and disappears. However, I gave up on that theory because the type of serial killer that would be would have more victims I think. And I'm still undecided on whether there's any connection to Lyric and Elizabeth?
I do think we'll be surprised when they make an arrest and we find out the info LE has held back.
I hope you are right. I go from having full faith in LE in that case to then feeling entirely the opposite. I also change thoughts on who, why, etc. They have run the gamut for me.

Your mentioning possibly someone in the area, I wonder that as well, like not necessarily Delphi but the surrounding area. I come from a midwest rural area and even though some towns are 20 miles apart and others closer, most of us in a certain radius in all of those towns have relatives in each and all know the same local trails, etc. in any of the areas and most work in the same small city, etc. So they could be from Delphi, originally came from Delphi and visit parents often but live a nearby town, etc.

They seem to have shut down any thought of the internet, FB, etc. but the Snapchat photos still bother me...

I am also one of those people that have come to the conclusion although stranger crimes do definitely occur and abductions, that most of the time it is someone they know or even if they are unaware of them, that they do not realize they have caught the eye of, often in one's own community. I think the crime seems and feels personal in some way, with the rumors of how the bodies were found and more. One just does not hear of two (or even one kid) being killed in such a manner by a stranger very often unless rape is involved of course but these murders are just odd.

I also go back and forth on whether they truly have DNA or not. If they don't then that would explain why no one in the community has been caught. I know I am not the only one that wonders. The podcast though that I linked above does have mention in it that the DNA comes from under Libby's fingernails, I hope that is true, no way to know for sure of course.

Your trucker idea may not be entirely off base. Maybe this man was only after one girl but the other had to be dealt with as well and perhaps he is not just bent on one age rage either and he does have other murders. One would think though if they were posed and such they would find similarities to other murders by now.

If even parts of what we have heard are true, he treated their bodies entirely differently and Libby put up a fight. I just wonder if he was not after Abby and what his intent was. I try not to speculate much about rape with these girls but only mention it to say I think it still could be he had that intent but things did not go as easily as he had hoped and that part of the plan was thwarted.

Lyric and Elizabeth do seem similar and it is hard to dismiss.
 

Whatsnext

Justice for Gannon 💙
Thanks for the info on the video - I hadn't seen it so now will go watch it. I started following this case when the girls were missing and search was going on. This case is why I left the other website - bickering, sniping, rumors - the whole thing.
I'm not completely, 100% convinced it's someone local - the population of Delphi is only 2800 - hard to imagine staying under the radar in a town that small for that long. However, it could be someone in a surrounding area that was familiar with that park. I think it was a crime of opportunity - I don't think they were stalked, or if they were it wasn't on FB or twitter, it would have been someone that knew them from school or around town.
One thing that caught my attention way back - Delphi is close to a major highway and the park is even closer. According to Google maps, almost directly across from the gate to the park is a facility that looks like some kind of warehouse or shipping location. It would be possible for a trucker to leave his trailer to be loaded and take a walk to the park. Later he gets back into his truck and disappears. However, I gave up on that theory because the type of serial killer that would be would have more victims I think. And I'm still undecided on whether there's any connection to Lyric and Elizabeth?
I do think we'll be surprised when they make an arrest and we find out the info LE has held back.
When I think about Abby and Libby I always have to think about Lyric and Elizabeth . It could have been a test run for the Delphi crime, or it wasn't connected at all...Lyric and Elizabeth were younger, I know, but the silence of LE about how they died is quite similar. It saddens me that both horrible crimes are still unsolved😥
 

GrandmaBear

‘We Have Nothing to Fear Except Fear Itself'
When I think about Abby and Libby I always have to think about Lyric and Elizabeth . It could have been a test run for the Delphi crime, or it wasn't connected at all...Lyric and Elizabeth were younger, I know, but the silence of LE about how they died is quite similar. It saddens me that both horrible crimes are still unsolved😥
Two girls in both cases. One would think DNA in both cases and perhaps other proof. And neither solved is sad and very frustrating.

Hard to believe either of these killers (or if one) would not be in the DNA database.
 

Kimster

Let's Find Michael Bryson!
Staff member
Thanks for the info on the video - I hadn't seen it so now will go watch it. I started following this case when the girls were missing and search was going on. This case is why I left the other website - bickering, sniping, rumors - the whole thing.
I'm not completely, 100% convinced it's someone local - the population of Delphi is only 2800 - hard to imagine staying under the radar in a town that small for that long. However, it could be someone in a surrounding area that was familiar with that park. I think it was a crime of opportunity - I don't think they were stalked, or if they were it wasn't on FB or twitter, it would have been someone that knew them from school or around town.
One thing that caught my attention way back - Delphi is close to a major highway and the park is even closer. According to Google maps, almost directly across from the gate to the park is a facility that looks like some kind of warehouse or shipping location. It would be possible for a trucker to leave his trailer to be loaded and take a walk to the park. Later he gets back into his truck and disappears. However, I gave up on that theory because the type of serial killer that would be would have more victims I think. And I'm still undecided on whether there's any connection to Lyric and Elizabeth?
I do think we'll be surprised when they make an arrest and we find out the info LE has held back.
My best speculation has been that it is someone that's familiar with the area, but no longer lives in the area. Maybe even someone that went there to visit grandparents during the summers when they were a kid.
 

SheWhoMustNotBeNamed

Administrator
Staff member
She seemed to say they know who the first bridge guy picture is and now they are looking for the 2nd one. News to me...
See, that's always confused me too.
Two suspect drawings were released. When they released the "updated" sketch, they didn't say that they had received new information or new pictures to make the sketch better. They said that the sketch was a completely different person... HUH? Where did this second man come from?

APPARENTLY NOT A SUSPECT. Though IMO this sketch looks much more like BG.
1602803423282.png

SUSPECT
1602803463921.png

Delphi murders: New suspect sketch not same man as in old sketch, ISP clarifies​

As questions swirl over new direction in murders of Abby Williams and Libby German, ISP clarifies that sketches are meant to be different men. Only one's a suspect.

On Wednesday, police emphasized that a new sketch of a suspect’s face is not supposed to be a different take on a composite sketch of a heavier, older-looking man. They are, according to Indiana State Police Sgt. Kim Riley, not the same person.

Riley also said Wednesday that the original sketch – released in the summer of 2017, showing a man with a goatee and a driving cap – is “not presently a person of interest in this investigation.”

According to an ISP release, the new sketch of the clean-shaven man “is representative of the face of the person captured in the video on Liberty German’s cell phone as he was walking on the high bridge.”
 

GrandmaBear

‘We Have Nothing to Fear Except Fear Itself'
See, that's always confused me too.
Two suspect drawings were released. When they released the "updated" sketch, they didn't say that they had received new information or new pictures to make the sketch better. They said that the sketch was a completely different person... HUH? Where did this second man come from?

APPARENTLY NOT A SUSPECT. Though IMO this sketch looks much more like BG.
View attachment 7341

SUSPECT
View attachment 7342

Delphi murders: New suspect sketch not same man as in old sketch, ISP clarifies​

As questions swirl over new direction in murders of Abby Williams and Libby German, ISP clarifies that sketches are meant to be different men. Only one's a suspect.

On Wednesday, police emphasized that a new sketch of a suspect’s face is not supposed to be a different take on a composite sketch of a heavier, older-looking man. They are, according to Indiana State Police Sgt. Kim Riley, not the same person.

Riley also said Wednesday that the original sketch – released in the summer of 2017, showing a man with a goatee and a driving cap – is “not presently a person of interest in this investigation.”

According to an ISP release, the new sketch of the clean-shaven man “is representative of the face of the person captured in the video on Liberty German’s cell phone as he was walking on the high bridge.”
Yeah, I don't know if we will ever understand this and all of their vague explaining muddles it more. Abby's mom did early on in the video I posted explain it more clearly than the cops by far if you just watch it partway in but it still leaves one with a vague feeling. And even though she more or less says they know who the first man was, it still leaves you with a feeling in do you mean they KNOW him or found him or investigated him but not that they know him or some such thing... She is not as vague as they are but she says it is two different men but then also explains it as some saw the one guy and some saw the other and now they are going with the other... And are both supposed to look like the picture?

There has to be some reason they make it clear but then it still feels muddy... Sigh...
 

Cousin Dupree

I know nothing - Grandmabear about herself.
Yeah, I don't know if we will ever understand this and all of their vague explaining muddles it more. Abby's mom did early on in the video I posted explain it more clearly than the cops by far if you just watch it partway in but it still leaves one with a vague feeling. And even though she more or less says they know who the first man was, it still leaves you with a feeling in do you mean they KNOW him or found him or investigated him but not that they know him or some such thing... She is not as vague as they are but she says it is two different men but then also explains it as some saw the one guy and some saw the other and now they are going with the other... And are both supposed to look like the picture?

There has to be some reason they make it clear but then it still feels muddy... Sigh...

IIRC, when the police unveiled the new photo they said the guy might even be in the room.
 

GrandmaBear

‘We Have Nothing to Fear Except Fear Itself'
IIRC, when the police unveiled the new photo they said the guy might even be in the room.
I think you are right. They seemed to refer to him as local or near Delphi too if I recall. It was a strong press conference and I was impressed and they hyped it ahead of time too and some thought news was coming. If I am thinking of the right one, there have been a few.
 

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