David "Dave" Edwin Lewis murder & arson 13 miles east of Ashland, OR - 4 September 2008

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David "Dave" Lewis was a 46 year old father of three. A jack of all trades and good man in any camp, Dave was well known and well respected in his mountain community where he lived on the summit of Dead Indian Memorial Road, 13 miles east of Ashland, Jackson County, Oregon for more than 20 years.

David was found dead after a fire at his rural cabin at 12801 Dead Indian Memorial Road. He had been murdered, shot & the cabin set fire.

David's remains were identified by DNA. There was also ANOTHER FIRE near Dave's cabin that same night, at a vacant vacation cabin at 18196 Dead Indian Memorial Road, about 5-6 miles away.

Edited to add media link: Dave Lewis was found murdered in his rural cabin east of Ashland, Oregon in 2008. His murder remains UNSOLVED!
 

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Found? Dead? So two with arson involved as well? Just commented on the other one you posted. And both in Oregon?
Yes. David was found dead after a fire at his rural cabin at 12801 Dead Indian Memorial Road. He had been murdered, shot & the cabin set fire.

David's remains were identified by DNA. There was also ANOTHER FIRE near Dave's cabin that same night, at a vacant vacation cabin at 18196 Dead Indian Memorial Road, about 5-6 miles away.

There has been some discussion over the years that Dave & Troy's cases could be connected.

The forensics don't match on the ballistics but there has been speculation that there could have been two guns with the same type of ammunition or something like that. LE has stated both that the cases ARE connected and ARE NOT connected over the years, most recently in 2020 they stated in a news interview that there IS a connection but what it is hasn't been made public.

The distance between Dave's and where Troy was found is approximately 35 miles, so not close but there are ways to travel between Dave's rural area and the area Troy was staying in.

I have some very detailed thoughts on this subject that I will share with everyone. I just got logged in & the threads up.

This case is personal to me. I knew Dave, he was a good friend.

I appreciate the immediate questions, that's a great sign. ⭐
 
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Yes. David was found dead after a fire at his rural cabin at 12801 Dead Indian Memorial Road. He had been murdered, shot & the cabin set fire.

David's remains were identified by DNA. There was also ANOTHER FIRE near Dave's cabin that same night, at a vacant vacation cabin at 18196 Dead Indian Memorial Road, about 5-6 miles away.

There has been some discussion over the years that Dave & Troy's cases could be connected.

The forensics don't match on the ballistics but there has been speculation that there could have been two guns with the same type of ammunition or something like that. LE has stated both that the cases ARE connected and ARE NOT connected over the years, most recently in 2020 they stated in a news interview that there IS a connection but what it is hasn't been made public.

The distance between Dave's and where Troy was found is approximately 35 miles, so not close but there are ways to travel between Dave's rural area and the area Troy was staying in.

I have some very detailed thoughts on this subject that I will share with everyone. I just got logged in & the threads up.

This case is personal to me. I knew Dave, he was a good friend.

I appreciate the immediate questions, that's a great sign. ⭐
First of all, the victims and the tragedy for me are foremost. Family and friends and what they have been dealt and have to deal with.

After that it is justice and on the side of the victims and families and friends affected always.

After that, I want to like many interested in crime want figure it out and solve it or ride along as they do so to speak. But for the first two reasons/sentences, for the victims and to see justice. Of course I/we don't solve anything but that's the drive, just keep cases alive, talk and who knows...

This is already interesting in that LE said they are related and also that they are not.

I know neither case but was looking for new posts and saw your first, then looked again and saw your second with two cases. And immediately struck me both Oregon. I thought the year and date was close and went back to the first and realized both were exactly the same. 35 miles is nothing and they "connect" in some way LE has said? The other thing that struck me were fires in both. States and areas differ as I've learned here and elsewhere with crime, way of life and more. That would be HIGHLY unusual here. Two such similar cases 1/2 an hour apart and on the same day.

I don't get a lot of time, tonight the fact I even saw these is unusual but when I do get time to check back, I am interested in further info and what you know of them.

I'm sorry you lost someone you knew and was a friend and that it's personal. It's advocates though that it is personal to in cases or family, etc. that gets it out there and keeps it out there getting interest in the case and keeps them from being ignored.

So the cases are 15+ years old and neither solved nor any arrests.

Both are considered homicides and arson?
 
The very same DATE? Wow.
Yes! This is another case that my friend Dreamweaver and I used to talk about at WS. And it looks like it’s as much of a mystery now as it was then! I can’t believe they haven’t any clues? @Red Clover just reminded me of these cases yesterday so I haven’t had a chance to delve into what’s been going on lately.
 
Yes. David was found dead after a fire at his rural cabin at 12801 Dead Indian Memorial Road. He had been murdered, shot & the cabin set fire.

David's remains were identified by DNA. There was also ANOTHER FIRE near Dave's cabin that same night, at a vacant vacation cabin at 18196 Dead Indian Memorial Road, about 5-6 miles away.

There has been some discussion over the years that Dave & Troy's cases could be connected.

The forensics don't match on the ballistics but there has been speculation that there could have been two guns with the same type of ammunition or something like that. LE has stated both that the cases ARE connected and ARE NOT connected over the years, most recently in 2020 they stated in a news interview that there IS a connection but what it is hasn't been made public.

The distance between Dave's and where Troy was found is approximately 35 miles, so not close but there are ways to travel between Dave's rural area and the area Troy was staying in.

I have some very detailed thoughts on this subject that I will share with everyone. I just got logged in & the threads up.

This case is personal to me. I knew Dave, he was a good friend.

I appreciate the immediate questions, that's a great sign. ⭐
I’ve always believed that the cases were connected because while it’s 35 miles away from each other, that’s not that far away in rural communities. I live in a rural Oregon community and 35 miles away is where I do a lot of my shopping for example. It’s just not that far when you live rurally!

I don’t remember Dreamweaver telling me that you knew one of the victims! But then again, it’s been a long time ago, and I’ve read about a lot of cases. That’s why I need a refresher.
 
First of all, the victims and the tragedy for me are foremost. Family and friends and what they have been dealt and have to deal with.

After that it is justice and on the side of the victims and families and friends affected always.

After that, I want to like many interested in crime want figure it out and solve it or ride along as they do so to speak. But for the first two reasons/sentences, for the victims and to see justice. Of course I/we don't solve anything but that's the drive, just keep cases alive, talk and who knows...

This is already interesting in that LE said they are related and also that they are not.

I know neither case but was looking for new posts and saw your first, then looked again and saw your second with two cases. And immediately struck me both Oregon. I thought the year and date was close and went back to the first and realized both were exactly the same. 35 miles is nothing and they "connect" in some way LE has said? The other thing that struck me were fires in both. States and areas differ as I've learned here and elsewhere with crime, way of life and more. That would be HIGHLY unusual here. Two such similar cases 1/2 an hour apart and on the same day.

I don't get a lot of time, tonight the fact I even saw these is unusual but when I do get time to check back, I am interested in further info and what you know of them.

I'm sorry you lost someone you knew and was a friend and that it's personal. It's advocates though that it is personal to in cases or family, etc. that gets it out there and keeps it out there getting interest in the case and keeps them from being ignored.

So the cases are 15+ years old and neither solved nor any arrests.

Both are considered homicides and arson?
I’ve always believed that having fires in both says it’s the same person. I mean it’s the same method of operation! I don’t remember that the two of them had a connection to each other but like I said, my memory is really foggy on all the details. It doesn’t matter. If they both had a connection to the killer, then it would make total sense.
 
I’ve always believed that having fires in both says it’s the same person. I mean it’s the same method of operation! I don’t remember that the two of them had a connection to each other but like I said, my memory is really foggy on all the details. It doesn’t matter. If they both had a connection to the killer, then it would make total sense.
@Red Clover mentioned I think that LE has said they aren't connected then a another time said they were in some way or something on that order. It seems likely to me they are related and as you said in a rural area, that's not thought of as much of a distance.

It's hard to believe though with two murders and fires in one day that no one has been caught. The perp was pretty busy that day...
 
First of all, the victims and the tragedy for me are foremost. Family and friends and what they have been dealt and have to deal with.

After that it is justice and on the side of the victims and families and friends affected always.

After that, I want to like many interested in crime want figure it out and solve it or ride along as they do so to speak. But for the first two reasons/sentences, for the victims and to see justice. Of course I/we don't solve anything but that's the drive, just keep cases alive, talk and who knows...

This is already interesting in that LE said they are related and also that they are not.

I know neither case but was looking for new posts and saw your first, then looked again and saw your second with two cases. And immediately struck me both Oregon. I thought the year and date was close and went back to the first and realized both were exactly the same. 35 miles is nothing and they "connect" in some way LE has said? The other thing that struck me were fires in both. States and areas differ as I've learned here and elsewhere with crime, way of life and more. That would be HIGHLY unusual here. Two such similar cases 1/2 an hour apart and on the same day.

I don't get a lot of time, tonight the fact I even saw these is unusual but when I do get time to check back, I am interested in further info and what you know of them.

I'm sorry you lost someone you knew and was a friend and that it's personal. It's advocates though that it is personal to in cases or family, etc. that gets it out there and keeps it out there getting interest in the case and keeps them from being ignored.

So the cases are 15+ years old and neither solved nor any arrests.

Both are considered homicides and arson?

I’ve always believed that the cases were connected because while it’s 35 miles away from each other, that’s not that far away in rural communities. I live in a rural Oregon community and 35 miles away is where I do a lot of my shopping for example. It’s just not that far when you live rurally!

I don’t remember Dreamweaver telling me that you knew one of the victims! But then again, it’s been a long time ago, and I’ve read about a lot of cases. That’s why I need a refresher.
I'm going to try to lay the whole thing out the best I can in response to both of you @GrandmaBear & @Kimster

Please let me know if you have any questions or need clarification.

These cases are more than 15 years old and like the two of you, I believe that Dave & Troy's deaths and the three arsons are all related.

To be fair, not everyone is going to agree with me 💯
Yes. David was found dead after a fire at his rural cabin at 12801 Dead Indian Memorial Road. He had been murdered, shot & the cabin set fire.

David's remains were identified by DNA. There was also ANOTHER FIRE near Dave's cabin that same night, at a vacant vacation cabin at 18196 Dead Indian Memorial Road, about 5-6 miles away.

There has been some discussion over the years that Dave & Troy's cases could be connected.

The forensics don't match on the ballistics but there has been speculation that there could have been two guns with the same type of ammunition or something like that. LE has stated both that the cases ARE connected and ARE NOT connected over the years, most recently in 2020 they stated in a news interview that there IS a connection but what it is hasn't been made public.

The distance between Dave's and where Troy was found is approximately 35 miles, so not close but there are ways to travel between Dave's rural area and the area Troy was staying in.

I have some very detailed thoughts on this subject that I will share with everyone. I just got logged in & the threads up.

This case is personal to me. I knew Dave, he was a good friend.

I appreciate the immediate questions, that's a great sign. ⭐

Absolutely all of my statements are as far as I understand, at this point in time, with the information I have had available and from what I have gathered and in my personal experience and through personal communications over 15 plus years...

TIMELINES
•AUGUST 2008
I spoke with Dave Lewis approximately 10 days before he passed. During this conversation we spoke of quite a few things but one thing he told me is that someone, a relative, had asked him for money, specifically part of his inheritance.

He told this person NO in no uncertain terms but he also said that they weren't taking no for an answer and that he "expected them to just show up"

I believe this person got in their vehicle and proceeded to drive the approximately 49 hours (7-7 hour days?) to the Rogue Valley to confront their relative, Dave Lewis.

•LABOR DAY WEEKEND 2008
Troy Dean Carney was camping near the Pilot Travel Center, a truck stop in Central Point Oregon. Troy was looking for work and had told his mother that he was trying to make enough to get back up to the Willamette Valley as he wasn't finding anything in the Rogue Valley.

Troy's mom told me in recent personal communications that Troy had been offered a partial day of work helping someone with a firewood delivery but that she had offered to send him $100 to buy a bus ticket so that he wouldn't have to take the firewood delivery job.

The $100 she wired him on the evening of 9/1/2008 was never picked up and she never spoke with Troy again.

Troy was last seen on tape walking out of the Pilot Travel Center, presumably to his camp spot near the Bear Creek Greenway. It's my understanding that Troy didn't use a tent, he slept away from others, under or in the brush.

From what his mom "Troy's mom" has posted on WS, he didn't usually let anyone know where he was camped and would get up very early to break camp; which as far as I can tell consisted of his sleeping bag, his clothes & shoes, & his phone.


At some point on the night of 9/1 or the early morning of 9/2 someone shot Troy to death in his sleeping bag.

There was no evidence that he had been harmed or robbed. His phone was tucked neatly into his shoe.

By the time he was found on the afternoon of 9/4/2008, his mom LW, had been trying to call him since early morning on 9/2.

His phone had to be charged by LE and they were able to call LW on 9/5 to let her know her son had passed

I have asked LW who Troy mentioned that he had contact with while he was in the Rogue Valley, and also about the last conversation she had with him on 9/1 & the contact she had with my mom @Dreamweaver and Dave's relative, the person who he was "expecting to just show up" in the early days after both Troy & Dave were found.
--more on that shortly--

I believe the person that Dave "expected to just show up" may have possibly encountered Troy at the Pilot Center Truck Stop after traveling from the north and arriving in the Rogue Valley around Labor Day weekend 2008.

•MONDAY-THURSDAY
9/1/2008-9/4/2008

David was murdered sometime in the late night hours of 9/3/2008 or in the very early morning hours of 9/4/2008.

LE has stated in news reports that he had been shot and that he had smoke in his lungs which indicates that he was still breathing at the time the fire was set. Dave's remains were recovered and identified through the use of DNA.

I have "heard" that Dave was in town, Ashland, that day, doing errands I suppose, and that he was at Hyatt Lake that evening/night, which was his normal routine. I don't know if he was or wasn't as LE has not released any of those kind of details.

Hyatt Lake was about 5 miles from Dave's cabin & it had a restaurant & bar at the resort. Dave was a regular customer and had worked there constructing some of the RV cabins that had been moved onto the federal property that the resort was leasing.

There's some controversy over whether the cabins were legally built and there was a long drawn out land use appeal over the resort's use of the property for several years after Dave's death.

I have seen instances of someone blaming the owners of this resort and to be fair there was definitely some animosity between the resort owners and Dave.

The first fire that was called in around 2:35 am was the vacation cabin at 18196 DIMR, which was visible from the road and at the junction of the Keno Access Road.

The second fire that was reported was most likely the first fire set, as by the time it was reported between 3:00-4:00 am and firefighters responded, the fire had already been burning so long that the cabin was gone. David's remains were found in the aftermath of the fire.

Both of these fires were set in the wee hours when most people sleep, both cabins were in a very rural area in the high mountains, near Howard Prairie & Hyatt Lakes in the Cascade-Siskiyou National Monument in Southern Oregon between Ashland & Klamath Falls.

I have reason to believe that this relative of Dave's, that he was "expecting to just show up" may have been camping at or near Soda Creek, near Latgawa Creek & a historic shelter in that area, either before or after Dave's murder but almost certainly around the time of the memorial.

I asked this person directly (At Dave's memorial) where they were staying and they said "up on Soda Creek" and I replied, not being familiar with Soda Creek, "Soda Mountain?" which was to our south. They motioned behind them to the north-ish and said "no, Soda Creek"

You can reach the Soda Creek area from either Hwy 140, for example from the Pilot Center on Pine Street /Biddle Road in Central Point on to Hwy 62 to White City and up Hwy 140 to Soda Creek Road OR from Dead Indian Memorial Road by way of Conde Creek Road, which are basically the same roads connected by a maze of BLM roads.

Conde Creek Road is approximately .5 mile from Dave's driveway and is approximately 5.5 miles from the vacation cabin at 18196 Dead Indian Memorial Road that also burned the night of 9/3-9/4/2008

•SUNDAY
9/14/2008

On Sunday 9/14/2008 around 1:00 am, someone returned to Troy's camp and set fire to the area.

Also on Sunday 9/14/2008 at noon, a memorial was held for David on the summit of the mountain at the site of his cabin.

Google 12801 Dead Indian Memorial Road to see some of the most glorious property one could imagine, for more fun, search the Jackson County Assessors Office to see who purchased the pristine 40 acre property in December 2022 for $350k. [snipped by me 😜]

•2008-2010
My mom @dreamweaver reached out to both Dave's relative & Troy's mom LW separately to help them set up social media & emails for the cases, it was her thing.

From approximately 2008-2010 this person posted as multiple personas on The Medford Mail Tribune forums.

IMO-- They have an unusual vocabulary and it is easy to spot their writing style across forums and to public entities such as letters to the editor and in their blog posts and this is what made them immediately identifiable to me on WS.

In 2008-2009 Dave's relative had a MySpace page in Dave's name. They had seemingly hacked into Dave's exwife JF's MySpace and had engaged in some very nasty messaging with me.

By late 2009 I had had more than enough of the manipulation & lies and sent this person a message on MySpace that basically told them to not contact me in any way, come into my personal space, work, etc, like you must do legally to protect yourself from a potential stalker.

It's around this time in late 2009 that this relative joined WS where they still post mostly cryptic messages that say absolutely nothing to this very day.

•2010-2015
This relative of Dave's claims a friend helped create a series of blog posts that are available on the wayback machine, the internet archives.

I will dig into some of that nonsense in the future, but take a look if you're interested.

DATED 1/15/2011--

There are endless variations of these blogs depending on the date and page and what the wayback machine has archived.

It's JMO, but most of the content of these blogs is misdirection, slander & innuendo. 😳

•2013-PRESENT
I was interviewed by Woody Pollack, retired LE, in IIRC, the late summer of 2013.

JCSO had reopened both Dave & Troy's cases and went back over everything but failed to come up with the evidence necessary to bring a case, it was at this time that the JCSO said there was NO CONNECTION between Dave & Troy.

In 2020 Captain Snaith has said that the cases WERE connected and there is a POI or persons of interest.

LW, Troy's mom has been adamant that Troy did not know Dave, never mentioned him and would have no reason to know him or have contact with him.

To this day, the only connection I am personally aware of AFAIK, is the contact Dave's relative had with Troy's mom in the days/weeks/months/years following their deaths and IF this relative came into contact with Troy at the Pilot Center.
--more on this later--

1/26/2023
I joined WS following in my mom, @Dreamweaver's footsteps after watching the Abraham Shakespeare episode on Netflix. My mom worked on that case.

ETA: I had some communication with Christian Adams ME of the JCSO in early 2023. I reached out to the DA this week and they put me in touch with the current detective in the case Det. David Seese.

1/25/2024
I was unceremoniously banned from WS for persistently stating what I know as a verified insider. The other VI on the thread was not friendly with me from my very first day on the thread and my posts were reported relentlessly.

It was quite telling and I can honestly say that my theories around "whodunnit" only solidified in my time there.

1/27/2024
I managed to log into my new account here on CW thanks to @Kimster

So that's it for now, I'm super grateful to be here and I am looking forward to discussing these cases (and more!) with you all.

Like my mom Dreamweaver, I have a soft spot for the missing & UID too, so look for me on some of those cases as well.

⭐

*EDITED FOR GRAMMAR & CLARITY
 
Last edited:
I'm going to try to lay the whole thing out the best I can in response to both of you @GrandmaBear & @Kimster

Please let me know if you have any questions or need clarification.

These cases are more than 15 years old and like the two of you, I believe that Dave & Troy's deaths and the three arsons are all related.

To be fair, not everyone is going to agree with me 💯


Absolutely all of my statements are as far as I understand, at this point in time, with the information I have had available and from what I have gathered and in my personal experience and through personal communications over 15 plus years...

TIMELINES
•AUGUST 2008
I spoke with Dave Lewis approximately 10 days before he passed. During this conversation we spoke of quite a few things but one thing he told me is that someone, a relative, had asked him for money, specifically part of his inheritance.

He told this person NO in no uncertain terms but he also said that they weren't taking no for an answer and that he "expected them to just show up"

I believe this person got in their vehicle and proceeded to drive the approximately 49 hours (7-7 hour days?) to the Rogue Valley to confront their relative, Dave Lewis.

•LABOR DAY WEEKEND 2008
Troy Dean Carney was camping near the Pilot Travel Center, a truck stop in Central Point Oregon. Troy was looking for work and had told his mother that he was trying to make enough to get back up to the Willamette Valley as he wasn't finding anything in the Rogue Valley.

Troy's mom told me in recent personal communications that Troy had been offered a partial day of work helping someone with a firewood delivery but that she had offered to send him $100 to buy a bus ticket so that he wouldn't have to take the firewood delivery job.

The $100 she wired him on the evening of 9/1/2008 was never picked up and she never spoke with Troy again.

Troy was last seen on tape walking out of the Pilot Travel Center, presumably to his camp spot near the Bear Creek Greenway. It's my understanding that Troy didn't use a tent, he slept away from others, under or in the brush.

From what his mom "Troy's mom" has posted on WS, he didn't usually let anyone know where he was camped and would get up very early to break camp; which as far as I can tell consisted of his sleeping bag, his clothes & shoes, & his phone.


At some point on the night of 9/1 or the early morning of 9/2 someone shot Troy to death in his sleeping bag.

There was no evidence that he had been harmed or robbed. His phone was tucked neatly into his shoe.

By the time he was found on the afternoon of 9/4/2008, his mom LW, had been trying to call him since early morning on 9/2.

His phone had to be charged by LE and they were able to call LW on 9/5 to let her know her son had passed

I have asked LW who Troy mentioned that he had contact with while he was in the Rogue Valley, and also about the last conversation she had with him on 9/1 & the contact she had with my mom @Dreamweaver and Dave's relative, the person who he was "expecting to just show up" in the early days after both Troy & Dave were found.
--more on that shortly--

I believe the person that Dave "expected to just show up" may have possibly encountered Troy at the Pilot Center Truck Stop after traveling from the north and arriving in the Rogue Valley around Labor Day weekend 2008.

•MONDAY-THURSDAY
9/1/2008-9/4/2008

David was murdered sometime in the late night hours of 9/3/2008 or in the very early morning hours of 9/4/2008.

LE has stated in news reports that he had been shot and that he had smoke in his lungs which indicates that he was still breathing at the time the fire was set. Dave's remains were recovered and identified through the use of DNA.

I have "heard" that Dave was in town, Ashland, that day, doing errands I suppose, and that he was at Hyatt Lake that evening/night, which was his normal routine. I don't know if he was or wasn't as LE has not released any of those kind of details.

Hyatt Lake was about 5 miles from Dave's cabin & it had a restaurant & bar at the resort. Dave was a regular customer and had worked there constructing some of the RV cabins that had been moved onto the federal property that the resort was leasing.

There's some controversy over whether the cabins were legally built and there was a long drawn out land use appeal over the resort's use of the property for several years after Dave's death.

I have seen instances of someone blaming the owners of this resort and to be fair there was definitely some animosity between the resort owners and Dave.

The first fire that was called in around 2:35 am was the vacation cabin at 18196 DIMR, which was visible from the road and at the junction of the Keno Access Road.

The second fire that was reported was most likely the first fire set, as by the time it was reported between 3:00-4:00 am and firefighters responded, the fire had already been burning so long that the cabin was gone. David's remains were found in the aftermath of the fire.

Both of these fires were set in the wee hours when most people sleep, both cabins were in a very rural area in the high mountains, near Howard Prairie & Hyatt Lakes in the Cascade-Siskiyou National Monument in Southern Oregon between Ashland & Klamath Falls.

I have reason to believe that this relative of Dave's, that he was "expecting to just show up" may have been camping at or near Soda Creek, near Latgawa Creek & a historic shelter in that area, either before or after Dave's murder but almost certainly around the time of the memorial.

I asked this person directly (At Dave's memorial) where they were staying and they said "up on Soda Creek" and I replied, not being familiar with Soda Creek, "Soda Mountain?" which was to our south. They motioned behind them to the north-ish and said "no, Soda Creek"

You can reach the Soda Creek area from either Hwy 140, for example from the Pilot Center on Pine Street /Biddle Road in Central Point on to Hwy 62 to White City and up Hwy 140 to Soda Creek Road OR from Dead Indian Memorial Road by way of Conde Creek Road, which are basically the same roads connected by a maze of BLM roads.

Conde Creek Road is approximately .5 mile from Dave's driveway and is approximately 5.5 miles from the vacation cabin at 18196 Dead Indian Memorial Road that also burned the night of 9/3-9/4/2008

•SUNDAY
9/14/2008

On Sunday 9/14/2008 around 1:00 am, someone returned to Troy's camp and set fire to the area.

Also on Sunday 9/14/2008 at noon, a memorial was held for David on the summit of the mountain at the site of his cabin.

Google 12801 Dead Indian Memorial Road to see some of the most glorious property one could imagine, for more fun, search the Jackson County Assessors Office to see who purchased the pristine 40 acre property in December 2022 for $350k. Hint: it's Dave's relative, the one who he expected would just show up.

•2008-2010
My mom @dreamweaver reached out to both Dave's relative & Troy's mom LW separately to help them set up social media & emails for the cases, it was her thing.

From approximately 2008-2010 this person posted as multiple personas on The Medford Mail Tribune forums.

IMO-- They have an unusual vocabulary and it is easy to spot their writing style across forums and to public entities such as letters to the editor and in their blog posts and this is what made them immediately identifiable to me on WS.

In 2008-2009 Dave's relative had a MySpace page in Dave's name. They had seemingly hacked into Dave's exwife JF's MySpace and had engaged in some very nasty messaging with me.

By late 2009 I had had more than enough of the manipulation & lies and sent this person a message on MySpace that basically told them to not contact me in any way, come into my personal space, work, etc, like you must do legally to protect yourself from a potential stalker.

It's around this time in late 2009 that this relative joined WS where they still post mostly cryptic messages that say absolutely nothing to this very day.

•2010-2015
This relative of Dave's claims a friend helped create a series of blog posts that are available on the wayback machine, the internet archives.

I will dig into some of that nonsense in the future, but take a look if you're interested.

DATED 1/15/2011--

There are endless variations of these blogs depending on the date and page and what the wayback machine has archived.

It's JMO, but most of the content of these blogs is misdirection, slander & innuendo. 😳

•2013-PRESENT
I was interviewed by Woody Pollack, retired LE, in IIRC, the late summer of 2013.

JCSO had reopened both Dave & Troy's cases and went back over everything but failed to come up with the evidence necessary to bring a case, it was at this time that the JCSO said there was NO CONNECTION between Dave & Troy.

In 2020 Det. Snaith said that the cases WERE connected and there is a POI or persons of interest.

LW, Troy's mom has been adamant that Troy did not know Dave, never mentioned him and would have no reason to know him or have contact with him.

To this day, the only connection I am personally aware of AFAIK, is the contact Dave's relative had with Troy's mom in the days/weeks/months/years following their deaths and IF this relative came into contact with Troy at the Pilot Center.
--more on this later--

1/26/2023
I joined WS following in my mom, @Dreamweaver's footsteps after watching the Abraham Shakespeare episode on Netflix. My mom worked on that case.

ETA: I had some communication with Christian Adams ME of the JCSO in early 2023. I reached out to the DA this week and they put me in touch with the current detective in the case Det. David Seese.

1/25/2024
I was unceremoniously banned from WS for persistently stating what I know as a verified insider. The other VI on the thread was not friendly with me from my very first day on the thread and my posts were reported relentlessly.

It was quite telling and I can honestly say that my theories around "whodunnit" only solidified in my time there.

1/27/2024
I managed to log into my new account here on CW thanks to @Kimster

So that's it for now, I'm super grateful to be here and I am looking forward to discussing these cases (and more!) with you all.

Like my mom Dreamweaver, I have a soft spot for the missing & UID too, so look for me on some of those cases as well.

⭐

*EDITED FOR GRAMMAR & CLARITY
I have nothing good to say about WS but that can wait. Glad you are out of there. It wouldn't have gotten any better, I promise you that.

Thanks for the info, it brings many questions but I'll just start with two or two subjects anyhow.

So first the fire where Troy was was started like ten days later after his death? That's different.

The other subject concerns Dave's relative. He needed money one day but then bought expensive property after Dave was murdered? Was this someone who inherited from Dave's death? Or where did the money come from?

I guess I do have one more for now. If there was animosity between the resort owners and Dave, why would he want to be a regular of the resort bar and restaurant?

I hope you know I am only asking these things to get a feel for it all, the case, the people and facts.
 
I have nothing good to say about WS but that can wait. Glad you are out of there. It wouldn't have gotten any better, I promise you that.

Thanks for the info, it brings many questions but I'll just start with two or two subjects anyhow.

So first the fire where Troy was was started like ten days later after his death? That's different.

The other subject concerns Dave's relative. He needed money one day but then bought expensive property after Dave was murdered? Was this someone who inherited from Dave's death? Or where did the money come from?

I guess I do have one more for now. If there was animosity between the resort owners and Dave, why would he want to be a regular of the resort bar and restaurant?

I hope you know I am only asking these things to get a feel for it all, the case, the people and facts.
I'm open to any questions I can answer and always happy to jiggle details around in hopes answers will fall through.

1) Yes. Fire at Troy's camp was 10 days after he had been found on the 4th, and LW feels he was killed on the night of 9/1, or early morning of 9/2, so almost two weeks.
It was also on the same day as Dave's memorial.

2) Dave's parents had both passed before him. On his windowsill were two inheritance checks that he hadn't cashed out and his parents home & property hadn't been sold & divided among the four siblings.

The relative that asked Dave for part of his inheritance had also received their own fair share but since Dave hadn't cashed theirs wanted part of his too.

Dave also told me that this relative had chronic money problems and had badgered his mother incessantly for money.

Dave & this relative also had discussions about an adult relative who was developmentally disabled and had been living on the east coast their whole life.

From what Dave said the adult relative was a happy, well adjusted member of their community, lived near another relative and Dave didn't see any reason why the relative asking for money should have guardianship or have access to their other relative's inheritance either.

3) There had been some kind of dispute between the owner & Dave and he was no longer working there at the resort.

I have assumed it's like other middle aged guys that have disagreements in their neighborhood bar but still show up everyday.

I don't know have any way of knowing how serious the situation was or if it was just words between guys.

David relayed one incident to me but it sounded like petty nonsense and involved returnable cans that Dave was accused of stealing.

He was a guy who lived really simply but had the vehicles and tools and equipment he needed, he definitely wasn't stealing any cans.
 
Welcome to CW. They are a friendly bunch in here I have had a quick look and hope you don't mind me asking as you will probably know answers straight off the bat.

Was there any sort of inquest or public investigations over these deaths? Who was/is the chief investigating officer? Can we get his name and stick it in here with any reports they issued?

On the inheritance, was probate granted or what happened about that? What was the lawyer's name? These inheritance checks - what happened to them and how much are we talking about? Were they destroyed in the fire? Did his share eventually go to his children or who after his death? Was probate granted for that too after his murder?

We can also see about finding local reports of these arsons and murders and link them on here.

I guess there is info in the thread on JT so I will have a look when I get a chance.
 
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Welcome to CW. They are a friendly bunch in here I have had a quick look and hope you don't mind me asking as you will probably know answers straight of the bat.

Was there any sort of inquest or public investigations over these deaths? Who was/is the chief investigating officer? Can we get his name and stick it in here with any reports they issued?

On the inheritance, was probate granted or what happened about that? What was the lawyer's name? These inheritance checks - what happened to them and how much are we talking about? Were they destroyed in the fire? Did his share eventually go to his children or who after his death? Was probate granted for that too after his murder?

We can also see about finding local reports of these arsons and murders and link them on here.

I guess there is info in the thread on JT so I will have a look when I get a chance.
These are some of the best questions! Thank you for welcoming me! ⭐

I wish I knew the answers to these questions.

I don't know anything about the probate in this case or have the names of any attorneys involved.

I also have no idea if inquests were conducted, I wonder if it's too late for that now...

AFAIK- No public reports of any kind have been released, unfortunately.

I have also wondered what happened to those checks;

Did Dave get them deposited before he passed?

Did he leave the checks uncashed?

Did the sale of his parent's property in Delaware benefit his children or was it split between the surviving relatives?

IIRC, JF, Dave's exwife was the person that was in charge of the probate process and took care of these details for their three sons, one son was a minor at the time of Dave's passing. The three sons were BL 21, CL 19 & SL 12.

IMO- I believe a forensic investigation of this subject as well as this relative's travel history would be an important next step in this investigation.

Early detectives on the case were Det Fox & Det. Snaith. I was interviewed in 2013 by Woody Pollack- retired LE, and I was in touch with Christian Adams ME in the early part of 2023 until an email bounced back in September.

I was informed this week that Det. David Seese is currently assigned to Dave's case.

It's JMO that this relative's alibi and financial statements have probably NOT been investigated as thoroughly as one would expect, I could be mistaken.

JMO- From day one of these investigations this relative has been VERY vocal in the case. VERY.
--more on this later--

AFAIK and from what JCSO said to me in early 2023 when I called asking about getting the police report, autopsy, DNA report and other documents- NOTHING was being released as this is still an ongoing investigation.

When I reached out to the DA's office recently, the elected DA, Beth Heckert replied "No decisions have been made to not prosecute this case, we simply have not had sufficient evidence to move forward."

I will post more articles as I can. Some of the older articles especially from local papers are only available in web archives.

I do have copies of newspapers from 9/5/2008 & 9/7/2008 which I will post later. ⭐

2009

2014

2020


I hope this helps answer some questions, LMK if I didn't touch on something you were hoping to have clarified.

⭐

ALL STATEMENTS ARE IMOO & BASED ON MY EXPERIENCE



David has a marker in the Mountain View Cemetery on Normal Street in Ashland Oregon.

David's cremains are not buried at this location per Find-A-Grave.

 

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I’ve always believed that the cases were connected because while it’s 35 miles away from each other, that’s not that far away in rural communities. I live in a rural Oregon community and 35 miles away is where I do a lot of my shopping for example. It’s just not that far when you live rurally!

I don’t remember Dreamweaver telling me that you knew one of the victims! But then again, it’s been a long time ago, and I’ve read about a lot of cases. That’s why I need a refresher.
Hi 👋 I am not surprised my mom didn't mention it, she's the one that showed me the original Ashland Daily Tidings newspaper article and she started the thread for Dave on WS and had reached out to Dave's relative to help them set up a MySpace account and an email.

I had seen Dave's relative at the memorial. They had been an assistant manager at The Beanery in Ashland where I worked in the mid 80's. That's how I met Dave & JF was through this relative that I worked with.

It was after this relative asked my mom and I to lie about petty things (independent of one another) and their questionable online & public behavior that we distanced ourselves.

My mom stopped posting on that thread at some point and I disassociated myself from this person.

There are more details of course but there's only so much my brain can handle. All for now.

⭐
 
I'm going to try to lay the whole thing out the best I can in response to both of you @GrandmaBear & @Kimster

Please let me know if you have any questions or need clarification.

These cases are more than 15 years old and like the two of you, I believe that Dave & Troy's deaths and the three arsons are all related.

To be fair, not everyone is going to agree with me 💯


Absolutely all of my statements are as far as I understand, at this point in time, with the information I have had available and from what I have gathered and in my personal experience and through personal communications over 15 plus years...

TIMELINES
•AUGUST 2008
I spoke with Dave Lewis approximately 10 days before he passed. During this conversation we spoke of quite a few things but one thing he told me is that someone, a relative, had asked him for money, specifically part of his inheritance.

He told this person NO in no uncertain terms but he also said that they weren't taking no for an answer and that he "expected them to just show up"

I believe this person got in their vehicle and proceeded to drive the approximately 49 hours (7-7 hour days?) to the Rogue Valley to confront their relative, Dave Lewis.

•LABOR DAY WEEKEND 2008
Troy Dean Carney was camping near the Pilot Travel Center, a truck stop in Central Point Oregon. Troy was looking for work and had told his mother that he was trying to make enough to get back up to the Willamette Valley as he wasn't finding anything in the Rogue Valley.

Troy's mom told me in recent personal communications that Troy had been offered a partial day of work helping someone with a firewood delivery but that she had offered to send him $100 to buy a bus ticket so that he wouldn't have to take the firewood delivery job.

The $100 she wired him on the evening of 9/1/2008 was never picked up and she never spoke with Troy again.

Troy was last seen on tape walking out of the Pilot Travel Center, presumably to his camp spot near the Bear Creek Greenway. It's my understanding that Troy didn't use a tent, he slept away from others, under or in the brush.

From what his mom "Troy's mom" has posted on WS, he didn't usually let anyone know where he was camped and would get up very early to break camp; which as far as I can tell consisted of his sleeping bag, his clothes & shoes, & his phone.


At some point on the night of 9/1 or the early morning of 9/2 someone shot Troy to death in his sleeping bag.

There was no evidence that he had been harmed or robbed. His phone was tucked neatly into his shoe.

By the time he was found on the afternoon of 9/4/2008, his mom LW, had been trying to call him since early morning on 9/2.

His phone had to be charged by LE and they were able to call LW on 9/5 to let her know her son had passed

I have asked LW who Troy mentioned that he had contact with while he was in the Rogue Valley, and also about the last conversation she had with him on 9/1 & the contact she had with my mom @Dreamweaver and Dave's relative, the person who he was "expecting to just show up" in the early days after both Troy & Dave were found.
--more on that shortly--

I believe the person that Dave "expected to just show up" may have possibly encountered Troy at the Pilot Center Truck Stop after traveling from the north and arriving in the Rogue Valley around Labor Day weekend 2008.

•MONDAY-THURSDAY
9/1/2008-9/4/2008

David was murdered sometime in the late night hours of 9/3/2008 or in the very early morning hours of 9/4/2008.

LE has stated in news reports that he had been shot and that he had smoke in his lungs which indicates that he was still breathing at the time the fire was set. Dave's remains were recovered and identified through the use of DNA.

I have "heard" that Dave was in town, Ashland, that day, doing errands I suppose, and that he was at Hyatt Lake that evening/night, which was his normal routine. I don't know if he was or wasn't as LE has not released any of those kind of details.

Hyatt Lake was about 5 miles from Dave's cabin & it had a restaurant & bar at the resort. Dave was a regular customer and had worked there constructing some of the RV cabins that had been moved onto the federal property that the resort was leasing.

There's some controversy over whether the cabins were legally built and there was a long drawn out land use appeal over the resort's use of the property for several years after Dave's death.

I have seen instances of someone blaming the owners of this resort and to be fair there was definitely some animosity between the resort owners and Dave.

The first fire that was called in around 2:35 am was the vacation cabin at 18196 DIMR, which was visible from the road and at the junction of the Keno Access Road.

The second fire that was reported was most likely the first fire set, as by the time it was reported between 3:00-4:00 am and firefighters responded, the fire had already been burning so long that the cabin was gone. David's remains were found in the aftermath of the fire.

Both of these fires were set in the wee hours when most people sleep, both cabins were in a very rural area in the high mountains, near Howard Prairie & Hyatt Lakes in the Cascade-Siskiyou National Monument in Southern Oregon between Ashland & Klamath Falls.

I have reason to believe that this relative of Dave's, that he was "expecting to just show up" may have been camping at or near Soda Creek, near Latgawa Creek & a historic shelter in that area, either before or after Dave's murder but almost certainly around the time of the memorial.

I asked this person directly (At Dave's memorial) where they were staying and they said "up on Soda Creek" and I replied, not being familiar with Soda Creek, "Soda Mountain?" which was to our south. They motioned behind them to the north-ish and said "no, Soda Creek"

You can reach the Soda Creek area from either Hwy 140, for example from the Pilot Center on Pine Street /Biddle Road in Central Point on to Hwy 62 to White City and up Hwy 140 to Soda Creek Road OR from Dead Indian Memorial Road by way of Conde Creek Road, which are basically the same roads connected by a maze of BLM roads.

Conde Creek Road is approximately .5 mile from Dave's driveway and is approximately 5.5 miles from the vacation cabin at 18196 Dead Indian Memorial Road that also burned the night of 9/3-9/4/2008

•SUNDAY
9/14/2008

On Sunday 9/14/2008 around 1:00 am, someone returned to Troy's camp and set fire to the area.

Also on Sunday 9/14/2008 at noon, a memorial was held for David on the summit of the mountain at the site of his cabin.

Google 12801 Dead Indian Memorial Road to see some of the most glorious property one could imagine, for more fun, search the Jackson County Assessors Office to see who purchased the pristine 40 acre property in December 2022 for $350k. Hint: it's Dave's relative, the one who he expected would just show up.

•2008-2010
My mom @dreamweaver reached out to both Dave's relative & Troy's mom LW separately to help them set up social media & emails for the cases, it was her thing.

From approximately 2008-2010 this person posted as multiple personas on The Medford Mail Tribune forums.

IMO-- They have an unusual vocabulary and it is easy to spot their writing style across forums and to public entities such as letters to the editor and in their blog posts and this is what made them immediately identifiable to me on WS.

In 2008-2009 Dave's relative had a MySpace page in Dave's name. They had seemingly hacked into Dave's exwife JF's MySpace and had engaged in some very nasty messaging with me.

By late 2009 I had had more than enough of the manipulation & lies and sent this person a message on MySpace that basically told them to not contact me in any way, come into my personal space, work, etc, like you must do legally to protect yourself from a potential stalker.

It's around this time in late 2009 that this relative joined WS where they still post mostly cryptic messages that say absolutely nothing to this very day.

•2010-2015
This relative of Dave's claims a friend helped create a series of blog posts that are available on the wayback machine, the internet archives.

I will dig into some of that nonsense in the future, but take a look if you're interested.

DATED 1/15/2011--

There are endless variations of these blogs depending on the date and page and what the wayback machine has archived.

It's JMO, but most of the content of these blogs is misdirection, slander & innuendo. 😳

•2013-PRESENT
I was interviewed by Woody Pollack, retired LE, in IIRC, the late summer of 2013.

JCSO had reopened both Dave & Troy's cases and went back over everything but failed to come up with the evidence necessary to bring a case, it was at this time that the JCSO said there was NO CONNECTION between Dave & Troy.

In 2020 Det. Snaith said that the cases WERE connected and there is a POI or persons of interest.

LW, Troy's mom has been adamant that Troy did not know Dave, never mentioned him and would have no reason to know him or have contact with him.

To this day, the only connection I am personally aware of AFAIK, is the contact Dave's relative had with Troy's mom in the days/weeks/months/years following their deaths and IF this relative came into contact with Troy at the Pilot Center.
--more on this later--

1/26/2023
I joined WS following in my mom, @Dreamweaver's footsteps after watching the Abraham Shakespeare episode on Netflix. My mom worked on that case.

ETA: I had some communication with Christian Adams ME of the JCSO in early 2023. I reached out to the DA this week and they put me in touch with the current detective in the case Det. David Seese.

1/25/2024
I was unceremoniously banned from WS for persistently stating what I know as a verified insider. The other VI on the thread was not friendly with me from my very first day on the thread and my posts were reported relentlessly.

It was quite telling and I can honestly say that my theories around "whodunnit" only solidified in my time there.

1/27/2024
I managed to log into my new account here on CW thanks to @Kimster

So that's it for now, I'm super grateful to be here and I am looking forward to discussing these cases (and more!) with you all.

Like my mom Dreamweaver, I have a soft spot for the missing & UID too, so look for me on some of those cases as well.

⭐

*EDITED FOR GRAMMAR & CLARITY
Thank you for this excellent timeline! I’m going to refer to it over and over.
 
I'm open to any questions I can answer and always happy to jiggle details around in hopes answers will fall through.

1) Yes. Fire at Troy's camp was 10 days after he had been found on the 4th, and LW feels he was killed on the night of 9/1, or early morning of 9/2, so almost two weeks.
It was also on the same day as Dave's memorial.

2) Dave's parents had both passed before him. On his windowsill were two inheritance checks that he hadn't cashed out and his parents home & property hadn't been sold & divided among the four siblings.

The relative that asked Dave for part of his inheritance had also received their own fair share but since Dave hadn't cashed theirs wanted part of his too.

Dave also told me that this relative had chronic money problems and had badgered his mother incessantly for money.

Dave & this relative also had discussions about an adult relative who was developmentally disabled and had been living on the east coast their whole life.

From what Dave said the adult relative was a happy, well adjusted member of their community, lived near another relative and Dave didn't see any reason why the relative asking for money should have guardianship or have access to their other relative's inheritance either.

3) There had been some kind of dispute between the owner & Dave and he was no longer working there at the resort.

I have assumed it's like other middle aged guys that have disagreements in their neighborhood bar but still show up everyday.

I don't know have any way of knowing how serious the situation was or if it was just words between guys.

David relayed one incident to me but it sounded like petty nonsense and involved returnable cans that Dave was accused of stealing.

He was a guy who lived really simply but had the vehicles and tools and equipment he needed, he definitely wasn't stealing any cans.
I remember now about the relative that was asking for the money. I can’t remember if there was evidence that the relative was in the area at the time or not?
 

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