Ahmaud Arbery shot while jogging in Georgia - shooters not arrested *ARREST*

Guess Who

Well-known member
I'm not ignoring any facts here. As I said earlier(more than once), I agree this is not a clear-cut case and is open to different perspectives. I also agree it was ill-advised for the McMichaels to have pursued him as they did, and certainly to brandish the shotgun. You need to keep in mind that the only facts and perspective offered so far have been those which the media have allowed you to hear.

Again, Arbery wasn't shot because he trespassed or because he refused to stop. That would be an entirely different story. He was shot because he ATTACKED THEM.

I'm not saying everyone else is wrong. Again, there's valid opinions being expressed on both sides. And I'm not quick to call one's opinion childish, but to compare a Girl Scout selling cookies at the door to repeated acts of trespassing... c'mon. That's obviously fallacious and Dupree knows as much.
No, because by your definition, we could plausibly go run down the UPS guy with a shotgun, just to ask him questions about why he keep going to the house next door. It fits your criteria for why they did the same to him.
 

Howell

Member
how do you figure it was likely that it was posted "no trespassing" just because cameras were installed? I have cameras and everybody that I know that has cameras has no such posting. None of us. Do you know how many houses are sold just because somebody walked in on the construction and loved the floor plan? That house was in the rough in stage. There was nothing to be stolen from it. What are you assuming he was going to steal? If you have crew that is leaving tools out on a job site, you better start looking for another crew to do that part of the job. If they can't take care of their own property, why would they take any better care of yours? Their tools are how they make a living and people that do that take care of their tools. So, again, what are you assuming he was there to steal?
It seems common sense to me that if someone is going to take the time and expense to install cameras and motion sensors on a vacant/unattended property(not like yours), he would also take the far less time and expense to post a couple of signs. It's possible it wasn't posted, but I think it likely was.

You're in no position to question my assumption. I've asked you several times now to explain what you believe Arbery was doing on that property, repeatedly, at night, over the course of 3+ months. You've yet to offer an answer. Answer my question and I'll be happy to explain my assumption.
 

GrandmaBear

Heroic Horse Rescuer & Trainer
I'm not ignoring any facts here. As I said earlier(more than once), I agree this is not a clear-cut case and is open to different perspectives. I also agree it was ill-advised for the McMichaels to have pursued him as they did, and certainly to brandish the shotgun. You need to keep in mind that the only facts and perspective offered so far have been those which the media have allowed you to hear.

Again, Arbery wasn't shot because he trespassed or because he refused to stop. That would be an entirely different story. He was shot because he ATTACKED THEM.

I'm not saying everyone else is wrong. Again, there's valid opinions being expressed on both sides. And I'm not quick to call one's opinion childish, but to compare a Girl Scout selling cookies at the door to repeated acts of trespassing... c'mon. That's obviously fallacious and Dupree knows as much.
Respectfully disagree. If a Witness comes to my door, I don't really like it and I used to be polite, now I am a bit stronger about it and I ask them to leave, and I tell them I have my own beliefs and unless they want mine pushed down their throats and to donate a quarter for my publication or thoughts on the time of day I decide, then they should leave, and if they don't leave, that fits Georgia's trespass law but I would never shoot them. AND this was not the case and Arbery never was told to leave if they had seen him there before--see Georgia's trespass law which you seem to have ignored above. If a telemarketer calls my house I also don't like it and don't think it should be legal and I pretty much tell them the same, first you buy what I have to sell okay? I honestly don't like trespassing and I want my privacy but I also would never shoot someone for not leaving. This was not a resided in home but again it comes down to the law whether you agree with the laws or not. I don't agree with all laws. However, again this was a former LE officer and the GBI does not agree they were acting within the law, just people they knew said as much...

I might not like all laws but there are laws. So you are speeding, should you be cornered and shot by civilians when you have done nothing more? Or if three cars cornered someone with firearms over would they be standing trial? You are ignoring facts and you keep stating he attacked them? They went after him with firearms and cornered him for NO act at all they can substantiate for that kind of response. A man standing in the back of the pickup armed, the road blocked, the man in the back is above you and all and can shoot you from any direction you go and in the back or the front and another is on the other side and a third coming right behind??? Filming no less for you being in a house under construction at best in broad daylight?? Dumb is too nice of a word and I can even see people seeing it as more than that.

Another thing. I have adult children. I also am not anti gun rights believe it or not. But would I ever do this OR let my adult child go along armed??? No way in he77. That video? When Arbery fell down he nor they even walked up to see if he was okay, alive or dead, the shooter walked away like well we have that taken care of. (Just my opinion on this part).

This is Georgia for goodness sake!!! I do think things are played sometimes and people sue for no reason other than money but there is a DEATH here, does it matter that little? These men don't have a scratch unless you can show one by a link in the struggle for the gun? Do not even get me started on the ACLU and such because I can agree that at times they and media help nothing and incite worse. HOWEVER, they look entirely like old school can do as I like if it is my property or my buddy's property and the homeowner does not even agree! Nor does the GBI.

I take none of my opinion from media hype. I do take it from video and fact and I have yet to see you show anything to support your opinion, even about him running from the house that day as if he was guilty once they saw him and trying to flee, you have made statements like that but with no support behind them nor links.

Sorry, but you are trying to fit round pegs into very square holes but accusing others of doing so.

The homeowner is KEY here and he never reported a theft nor vandalism to his property as far as we know, he had his own surveillance and yes there are things for a jury to decide and it is not clear cut but not a single thing so far is in the favor of the three and in fact gets worse all of the time.

I have said more than once, my opinions do not come from media that is why I am sometimes not agreed with as I try to wait to decide until more comes out. I have not reached an opinion on the Breonna case, I do have a leaning but I am waiting for more to substantiate where I lean. This case, each day, I am leaning more one way. Maybe later something will show me otherwise and I will change my opinion but I don't think so.

I only hope they did not set out to kill because it is real debatable the more I see, and I did not think that initially.

Justtttt myyyy humbleee opinionnn....
 

Howell

Member
I've worked around construction over half of my life now. Part of the end of day procedure is making sure that trades didn't leave a mess behind, including their tools. The office I worked in was in the subdivision we were buiding and you woudn't believe how many people are just plain curious and come have a look through. If it's in an already established neighborhood, you get the normal walkers taking a look just to see what progress was being made and to see new things builders are doing now compared to when their house was built. That by itself sold a few, too. It's another reason why it is a good idea to keep the site cleaned up each day.
Nobody who has any measurable experience around a construction site would say this. It's very telling that you mention the "office" you worked in. At the end of a long day, crews are loathe to load up everything just to have to bring it all back and unload it the next morning. So sometimes they leave tools and materials on site. Anybody with any knowledge of construction knows this. Experienced thieves know this as well.
 

GrandmaBear

Heroic Horse Rescuer & Trainer
It seems common sense to me that if someone is going to take the time and expense to install cameras and motion sensors on a vacant/unattended property(not like yours), he would also take the far less time and expense to post a couple of signs. It's possible it wasn't posted, but I think it likely was.

You're in no position to question my assumption. I've asked you several times now to explain what you believe Arbery was doing on that property, repeatedly, at night, over the course of 3+ months. You've yet to offer an answer. Answer my question and I'll be happy to explain my assumption.
Not a response to me but I will chime in. I do not think he was probably a choir boy as I have said before, however, these men had nothing, nothing, if LE could not act on it, to react as they did the day they did. Even the arrests or charges they have shown he never brandished a weapon at anyone. Was he smart to enter, probably not considering the day and age. You are assuming, you don't have video and links and you have assumptions.

LE gets frustrated because they are limited by having to follow the book and attitudes and I can understand that entirely. Defendants get too much, imo, consideration with rights to appeal and all, and if a murderer even more so. A PI can often do more legally than LE and that bites.

You are assuming it is likely a no trespassing was posted with no proof. Perhaps it was. If it was, it does show Arbery should not have entered. However, again, the three were not the homeowner nor LE.

If you watch that video, you know EXACTLY what these men look like in Georgia no less! At minimum they are guilty of being morons particularly if in LE for how long. Trying to keep the status quo? Being a moron in 30s and 50s is not a crime but come on... The video was posted because they really thought it was filmed in a way to exonerate. Duh.
 

GrandmaBear

Heroic Horse Rescuer & Trainer
Nobody who has any measurable experience around a construction site would say this. It's very telling that you mention the "office" you worked in. At the end of a long day, crews are loathe to load up everything just to have to bring it all back and unload it the next morning. So sometimes they leave tools and materials on site. Anybody with any knowledge of construction knows this. Experienced thieves know this as well.
No offense but you seem to kind of label others. I find that really simplistic in this day and age. You leave nothing of value at a site that can be taken with. Insurance even has an issue at times if you leave your keys in the car even in your own driveway at a rural location and your car is stolen. And as far as what you just said about working in an office, so did I, but I read every detail in every case, police reports, interviews, etc.

If you want to knock people with brain cells that have worked in offices then maybe someone working in law enforcement should know what their job is about and what the laws are and keep up with them.

Just my opinion, with all due respect.
 

Howell

Member
No, because by your definition, we could plausibly go run down the UPS guy with a shotgun, just to ask him questions about why he keep going to the house next door. It fits your criteria for why they did the same to him.
The UPS guy delivers packages to an address. He doesn't trespass into the house for several minutes without any reasonable explanation. Just like a Girl Scout, he would only be using areas of "public access". Nowhere in "my definition" would it be plausible to chase him down with a shotgun.
 

GrandmaBear

Heroic Horse Rescuer & Trainer
The UPS guy delivers packages to an address. He doesn't trespass into the house for several minutes without any reasonable explanation. Just like a Girl Scout, he would only be using areas of "public access". Nowhere in "my definition" would it be plausible to chase him down with a shotgun.
I was a Girl Scout. Don't get me started. This was a home under construction, not a resided in residence. You are picking and choosing what fits.
 

Guess Who

Well-known member
It seems common sense to me that if someone is going to take the time and expense to install cameras and motion sensors on a vacant/unattended property(not like yours), he would also take the far less time and expense to post a couple of signs. It's possible it wasn't posted, but I think it likely was.

You're in no position to question my assumption. I've asked you several times now to explain what you believe Arbery was doing on that property, repeatedly, at night, over the course of 3+ months. You've yet to offer an answer. Answer my question and I'll be happy to explain my assumption.
I HAVE gave you my assumption of what every one of those people that went through that house was doing. They were doing what happens on nearly every new home construction site, curious people satisfying their curiosity. Ive also asked you what you assume he was there to steal when at that phase of construction there is not much worth stealing.
 

Guess Who

Well-known member
Nobody who has any measurable experience around a construction site would say this. It's very telling that you mention the "office" you worked in. At the end of a long day, crews are loathe to load up everything just to have to bring it all back and unload it the next morning. So sometimes they leave tools and materials on site. Anybody with any knowledge of construction knows this. Experienced thieves know this as well.
you have obviously never worked in the construction office nor a construction site. No contractor is going to keep a sub or employee that is that lazy. No person that uses those tools for their living is going to leave their money makers on a site so that some could take them. Police are not going to come to your site if you have a history of leaving stuff out to entice theft from your property. You speak as a person very inexperienced with home building and have not actually been around such a process.
 

Howell

Member
Respectfully disagree. If a Witness comes to my door, I don't really like it and I used to be polite, now I am a bit stronger about it and I ask them to leave, and I tell them I have my own beliefs and unless they want mine pushed down their throats and to donate a quarter for my publication or thoughts on the time of day I decide, then they should leave, and if they don't leave, that fits Georgia's trespass law but I would never shoot them. AND this was not the case and Arbery never was told to leave if they had seen him there before--see Georgia's trespass law which you seem to have ignored above. If a telemarketer calls my house I also don't like it and don't think it should be legal and I pretty much tell them the same, first you buy what I have to sell okay? I honestly don't like trespassing and I want my privacy but I also would never shoot someone for not leaving. This was not a resided in home but again it comes down to the law whether you agree with the laws or not. I don't agree with all laws. However, again this was a former LE officer and the GBI does not agree they were acting within the law, just people they knew said as much...

I might not like all laws but there are laws. So you are speeding, should you be cornered and shot by civilians when you have done nothing more? Or if three cars cornered someone with firearms over would they be standing trial? You are ignoring facts and you keep stating he attacked them? They went after him with firearms and cornered him for NO act at all they can substantiate for that kind of response. A man standing in the back of the pickup armed, the road blocked, the man in the back is above you and all and can shoot you from any direction you go and in the back or the front and another is on the other side and a third coming right behind??? Filming no less for you being in a house under construction at best in broad daylight?? Dumb is too nice of a word and I can even see people seeing it as more than that.

Another thing. I have adult children. I also am not anti gun rights believe it or not. But would I ever do this OR let my adult child go along armed??? No way in he77. That video? When Arbery fell down he nor they even walked up to see if he was okay, alive or dead, the shooter walked away like well we have that taken care of. (Just my opinion on this part).

This is Georgia for goodness sake!!! I do think things are played sometimes and people sue for no reason other than money but there is a DEATH here, does it matter that little? These men don't have a scratch unless you can show one by a link in the struggle for the gun? Do not even get me started on the ACLU and such because I can agree that at times they and media help nothing and incite worse. HOWEVER, they look entirely like old school can do as I like if it is my property or my buddy's property and the homeowner does not even agree! Nor does the GBI.

I take none of my opinion from media hype. I do take it from video and fact and I have yet to see you show anything to support your opinion, even about him running from the house that day as if he was guilty once they saw him and trying to flee, you have made statements like that but with no support behind them nor links.

Sorry, but you are trying to fit round pegs into very square holes but accusing others of doing so.

The homeowner is KEY here and he never reported a theft nor vandalism to his property as far as we know, he had his own surveillance and yes there are things for a jury to decide and it is not clear cut but not a single thing so far is in the favor of the three and in fact gets worse all of the time.

I have said more than once, my opinions do not come from media that is why I am sometimes not agreed with as I try to wait to decide until more comes out. I have not reached an opinion on the Breonna case, I do have a leaning but I am waiting for more to substantiate where I lean. This case, each day, I am leaning more one way. Maybe later something will show me otherwise and I will change my opinion but I don't think so.

I only hope they did not set out to kill because it is real debatable the more I see, and I did not think that initially.

Justtttt myyyy humbleee opinionnn....
Again, Arbery was shot because he ATTACKED THEM. That's what this case is going to come down to. Did McMichael have a right to shoot him at that moment? I think the video clearly shows that he did. Did they have a right to pursue him to begin with? That's a bit more nuanced and worth discussion. Were these just a couple of redneck beer-swilling racists who stalked and killed an innocent jogger as the media have portrayed? I don't think so.
 

Guess Who

Well-known member
No offense but you seem to kind of label others. I find that really simplistic in this day and age. You leave nothing of value at a site that can be taken with. Insurance even has an issue at times if you leave your keys in the car even in your own driveway at a rural location and your car is stolen. And as far as what you just said about working in an office, so did I, but I read every detail in every case, police reports, interviews, etc.

If you want to knock people with brain cells that have worked in offices then maybe someone working in law enforcement should know what their job is about and what the laws are and keep up with them.

Just my opinion, with all due respect.
oh yeah, i forgot to mention how much a contractors builders risk, workmans comp and liability insurances can either skyrocket or get cancelled with having such lazy contractors and employees
 

Guess Who

Well-known member
The UPS guy delivers packages to an address. He doesn't trespass into the house for several minutes without any reasonable explanation. Just like a Girl Scout, he would only be using areas of "public access". Nowhere in "my definition" would it be plausible to chase him down with a shotgun.
private property is private property. The exact same no trespassing rules apply in this case.
 

kdg411

Administrator
Staff member
Whatever Ahmaud was really doing walking around that propery we'll never know and is speculative and a mute point. I would however, like to see what took place after Ahmaud ran around the front of that truck since it is out of view. This gives me pause about this case.
 

Howell

Member
No offense but you seem to kind of label others. I find that really simplistic in this day and age. You leave nothing of value at a site that can be taken with. Insurance even has an issue at times if you leave your keys in the car even in your own driveway at a rural location and your car is stolen. And as far as what you just said about working in an office, so did I, but I read every detail in every case, police reports, interviews, etc.

If you want to knock people with brain cells that have worked in offices then maybe someone working in law enforcement should know what their job is about and what the laws are and keep up with them.

Just my opinion, with all due respect.
Calm down Grandma, please. I'm not knocking anyone who works in an office. But there's a big difference between what happens in a construction office versus a construction site. That was my point. Contractors and their laborers leave things on site out of laziness, forgetfulness, etc. That's just a fact. If that didn't happen, things would rarely be stolen from a construction site, but we all know things are frequently stolen from construction sites.
 

Howell

Member
you have obviously never worked in the construction office nor a construction site. No contractor is going to keep a sub or employee that is that lazy. No person that uses those tools for their living is going to leave their money makers on a site so that some could take them. Police are not going to come to your site if you have a history of leaving stuff out to entice theft from your property. You speak as a person very inexperienced with home building and have not actually been around such a process.
I worked on construction sites for several years. I was solely responsible for overseeing a 4.5 million dollar commercial project. You can believe that or not, I'm not here to compare resumes. I know what takes place on construction sites. GCs keep substandard subcontractors and their employees around all of the time. Tools are left overnight on construction sites all of the time. Anyone who claims otherwise is either lying or hopelessly naive.
 

GrandmaBear

Heroic Horse Rescuer & Trainer
oh yeah, i forgot to mention how much a contractors builders risk, workmans comp and liability insurances can either skyrocket or get cancelled with having such lazy contractors and employees
In some cases I know of, it was the contractor's employees who clued others in... Couldn't be prove though back in the day. We don't have proof of theft here of any means but just talking about things I have seen... You have it right, between insurance and contractors and employees, if there even was any theft, which there seems to be none here, I would look at the contractors and who they notified to begin with of when empty, if cameras, what left, etc. ... Not someone jogging who would report or steal for goodness sake...
 

GrandmaBear

Heroic Horse Rescuer & Trainer
Calm down Grandma, please. I'm not knocking anyone who works in an office. But there's a big difference between what happens in a construction office versus a construction site. That was my point. Contractors and their laborers leave things on site out of laziness, forgetfulness, etc. That's just a fact. If that didn't happen, things would rarely be stolen from a construction site, but we all know things are frequently stolen from construction sites.
I am entirely calm, no worries there :D I have worked for brilliant people and I have worked for GMs that were idiots that could not handle a single aspect of the business they oversaw if they had to. A 4.5 million dollar project means nothing to me to say anyone knows better than some because I can share some big stories that way of people overseeing such projects that were idiots or screwed up big time.

We do agree on SOME "laborers" and let us add some general contractors to that, not only employees. For a theft or something organized it would generally not be a 20 something year old jogger. Seriously, what is he going to do or what is a hand tool going to get him in his shorts' pocket? Go there how many times (if him) and steal a hammer which would be obvious itself? And get what? A $1.00 for it? Do people leave tools behind? Nowadays. Well good luck with that one. That is stupidity and it is on the GC or the homeowner to oversee it.

Jmo.
 

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